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kickingking
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:39 am

SeamusMurphy wrote:
Most if not all of those kkk are u21 again next Year, which is very promising indeed.

There's a strong case to be made for having a crossover between the respective senior and u21 management teams over the next few years to help ease the transition of these players up to senior level.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:55 am

kickingking wrote:
SeamusMurphy wrote:
Most if not all of those kkk are u21 again next Year, which is very promising indeed.

There's a strong case to be made for having a crossover between the respective senior and u21 management teams over the next few years to help ease the transition of these players up to senior level.

Makes sence and should be a given.. and in fairness McGeeney had that in place during Alan Barrys tenure.

Remember the crazy situation a few Years ago when Keith Cribben was togging out for McGeeneys Senior Team, while not making Glen Ryans Panel that reached the AI U21 Final. Embarassed
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tpos
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:01 am

Remember the crazy situation a few Years ago when Keith Cribben was togging out for McGeeneys Senior Team, while not making Glen Ryans Panel that reached the AI U21 Final.
Seniors beaten by Wicklow
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:55 am

That happens - Cribbin is something of a marmite player anyway. Didn't the same occur with McGrillen ?
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:08 am

Frankel wrote:
Well there needs to be some sort of a clear out, no point going back with the same ones over and over again when they clearly not good enough.

On this topic I would seriously experiment in the O'Byrne Cup next year with NONE of the regulars afforded a starting place. And I'd take the best 7 or 8 newcomers and start them in the early league games alongside the best 7 or 8 from this year. Make it uncomfortable for the current squad and an uphill battle to retain their places.

I'd be inclined to see if Luke Flynn might be an option at full back, try out Ryan Houlihan and Paul Mescall to name two in defence. If there's some dirty bollox of a full back out there in the club scene that could be our "Francie Bellew" or "Neil McGee" I'd give him a go too (I don't see many club games). Could Daryl Flynn play there even? From what I've seen of minor and under 21 I'd give Neil Flynn, Mark Sherry, Chris Healy and maybe even Jimmy Hyland a go up front.

So the starting line up for the league might be something like:

Donnellan

Kelly
L. Flynn
Mescall

Houlihan
Doyle
Dan Flynn

Cribbin
Moolick

Sherry
N Kelly
Healy

N.Flynn
Smith or Fogarty
Hyland

Players I would wave good bye to for sure would be Hugh Lynch, Mikey Conway, Eamon Callaghan, Fionn Dowling and David Whyte. Possibly Chalky, Kevin Murnaghan, Cathal McNally also.

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ixus
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:16 am

The way the current game is played, you could have the two McGee's and Bellew on the fullback line and we'd still get hammered. The primary defensive problem is the oppositions ability to run at us from deep right down the middle and have a massive overlap of players.

Leaving big gaps in the middle, big gaps between full and half back line and not tracking runners. Every season we;ve met Dublin, thye've had the opportunity to knock 7 goals past us. Only lucky they haven't.

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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:52 am

Agree with most of that Crofter. Daryl Flynn has not been fully fit since Donegal in 2011 and maybe his time has gone. Would like to see Dave Hyland get another go, I thought he was badly treated this year after a good campaign for the U21's.
We have tended to be to cautious in the O'Bryne Cup and not experimented as much as other counties, probably explains why we have won it so often. We have a good opportunity next year in Div 3 to get a lot of younger players involved. Div 2 next year has 5 Ulster counties in it, not an ideal place for a young team trying to gel.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:08 am

I'm sorry murof but i don't agree We are looking for lads who have a bit of steel and pride in the squad . David Hyland fucked of to the US when he thought the ship was sinking. I've been involved in club teams and club players would stand for that. No problem whatsoever a lad going to the US but not in the middle of the championship. If we beat Dublin would he have went? If i was a player i definitely would be welcoming Mr Hyland back with open arms.
Harsh maybe but that's the way i feel about it.
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:02 am

Fair enough Jim but I personally would be more pragmatic than principled about all matters football. A lot of the players who stayed didn't display much steel and pride last sunday.
My criteria in picking a team would be based on what lads can do on the pitch rather than what they did off the pitch in the past. I accept that others would see it totally different and I respect that view.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:24 am

I don't see how Hyland was badly treated. He's never struck me as one of our best 6 defenders at senior level, gives away too any frees and isn't a particularly good tackler or marker. He also showed his true colours in pissing off to the US as said above. I wouldn't have him in the squad next year. Judging by Bolton's comments on OffTheBall some of the players may agree. Mulhall the same although his abandonment by Ryan was curious. Not sure about Dan Flynn - I get the impression he really needed to clear his head after the Australian thing but then got injured anyway. Would give him a chance next year if he's interested. He's also got a lot more potential than Hyland or Mulhall.
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Shergar
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:37 pm

To be honest I don't think the players who played last Sunday have much high moral ground to stand on in relation to Hyland or anybody else. We need the best team we can put together. McGuiness didn't ignore players because they walked out on the previous manager JJ Doherty. We were all annoyed with what the lads did after the Dublin game but a certain amount of pragmatism is required as well. We're not that good that we can ignore them.

A problem with trying to blood young players is that a number of them will be playing for their college teams in the O'Byrne Cup next year which makes it awkward for us. As well as this we need to improve our foot passing hugely. When we come under pressure we rely almost entirely on hand-passing and when we turn over possession we are left with no defensive shape. Need a rethink of the half forward line. As Ixus pointed out we're getting destroyed out the field leaving the full-back line vulnerable.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:52 pm

Some good points lads. I suppose my main point is that the type of player that kildare or any other team needs is men of character. Someone with strong values. A player that doesn't just talk about the importance of the team but puts the team first even if he's not on it. No egos, no I'm getting a raw deal, no poor me attitude. In my book the more of these type player , the stronger the team. It doesn't mean he won't have a shit day but it means even on a shit day he'll work his hole off for the team. To make that block or make the space for a team mate. For me that's what being part of a team is all about. That when the shit hits the fan, that your team mate's know and thrust that you will give everything you have for the cause. So my point is, as a player, could i thrust Mr Mulhall or Mr Hyland and a few more on the panel. my answer is NO!!!!!
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:10 pm

I would rate Hyland comfortably in the top six defenders in Kildare, ability wise. More a wing-back than a corner-back though. Can understand the argument against having those boys involved next year, mind you. Tough call for whoever's managing us.
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:28 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
I would rate Hyland comfortably in the top six defenders in Kildare, ability wise. More a wing-back than a corner-back though. Can understand the argument against having those boys involved next year, mind you. Tough call for whoever's managing us.  

It is a hard call all right, if your going to get the benefits of training with the inter county panel from November through to July/August I think you should stick with the team until the end.  If I was a member of that panel I certainly wouldn't be welcoming them back.

What really annoys me more is that it was widely reported, from early this year, that Hyland was going the to U.S. for the summer and he was still allowed to train/stay on the panel.
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kickingking
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:42 pm

While the disappointment at Hyland's leaving the panel is understandable, are we really in a position where we can close the door on a 21 year old defender considering our starting back six last Sunday containted one 30 year old and three more players in their late 20s (Bolton, Lyons, Fitzpatrick and Murnaghan)?

We don't have a huge pool of quality players to pick from at the moment. Hopefully that will change as these minor teams start coming through.
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Westside
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:11 am

I dont know why there is so much guff on here about Hyland. Right now Hyland needs to fill out physically and would not be in the top 6 backs if all were fit. (Lyons, Kelly, Fitzpatrick, O'Grady, Conway, Eoin Doyle, Bolton).
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:13 am

Suitability is about more than ability. I know what the likes of Doyle, Earley and Rainbow would think.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:33 am

I know the standard that Doyle, Earley and Rainbow set and that should be the standard for everyone and ability doesn't even come into it.
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:51 am

Maybe so lads I suppose it would depend on what he told management and when. I don't know what I'd do.

But I definitely believe Hyland is a potentially better player than three of the six lads mentioned above. A lot better. That's all I'm saying.
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:46 am

This argument reminds me of a conversation overhead by a journalist between a Welsh rugby player and a supporter about an upcoming match between their team and the all conquering English team of of the last decade. The supporter assured the player that "pride and passion would beat the English". He was taken aback when the player replied, " no they have as much of those as us. Skill and teamwork are the only way to beat this team".
It was was skill and teamwork that beat us last sunday, Kerry had so much more of those than us. Thats where we need to start building a new team.
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Cilldara_2000
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:28 am

This is awful nonsense about Hyland. Jim and Crofter should be ashamed of themselves; seriously hanging a young fella because he went to America for a summer. Christ on a bike!
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:29 am

I guess Emmet Bolton and Johnny Doyle should be ashamed of themselves too then as they expressed disappointment at those decisions in the national media.

They pissed off as soon as the going got tough. That's the sort of attitude we can do without.
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:28 am

Crofter wrote:
I guess Emmet Bolton and Johnny Doyle should be ashamed of themselves too then as they expressed disappointment at those decisions in the national media.

They pissed off as soon as the going got tough. That's the sort of attitude we can do without.

Are you serious? Would you not say the going was tough all year with some embarrassing displays in the league? Losing all our home matches, conceding 24 points to Roscommon, losing to Westmeath for the first time and finishing like a damp squib against Galway when they really had something to play for.
Don't anyone kid themselves that things only went bad in the Dublin game, we have been conceding big scores and losing a lot of matches in the last 2 years.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:13 am

Cill dara2000 i apologies if it came across that i hung david Hyland out to dry that was not my intention. He or anyone else is entitled to head to the US. I just give my opinion that i thought it was bad form and not the type of think that is good for building a team along with a lot of other factors. Nothing personal against David. So i will apologise but i won't hold my head in shame for expressing an option. No more from me on the matter.
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PostSubject: Re: Player Watch   Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:51 am

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Maybe so lads I suppose it would depend on what he told management and when. I don't know what I'd do.

But I definitely believe Hyland is a potentially better player than three of the six lads mentioned above. A lot better. That's all I'm saying.

I would agree with that. Looking at what he did as a 17-year-old on Dessie Dolan in a Leinster semi-final... huge potential.
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