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 Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.

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As it stands do you back Jason Ryan to continue as manager
Yes - He's building a team and needs time.
8%
 8% [ 5 ]
No - He was a wrong choice, replace now.
25%
 25% [ 15 ]
Until end of season and assess again.
52%
 52% [ 32 ]
Until end of season and replace
15%
 15% [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 61
 

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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:24 am

I agree with you Stonecold. People calling for his head now without a breeze who they'd get to replace them. Wouldn't stop them lambasting whoever did have to go looking for a manager in February for appointing whoever they appoint.
People can't see the shortfall in talent. We have no midfielders worthy of the name fit and available at the moment. Ryan is supposed to magic them up from somewhere.
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:29 am

Freddy Krueger wrote:
I know Stuart better than you think Ohto. I was at the All Ireland Final in 07 and 08, I got the years mixed up.

Were at the game yourself on Saturday night by the way?

SMS did not play against Tyrone in 2008.

No I wasn't at the game. I live abroad. Got up to watch it.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:37 am

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Freddy Krueger wrote:
I know Stuart better than you think Ohto. I was at the All Ireland Final in 07 and 08, I got the years mixed up.

Were at the game yourself on Saturday night by the way?

SMS did not play against Tyrone in 2008.  

No I wasn't at the game. I live abroad. Got up to watch it.

Was sure he came on for second half, are you sure about that? I was at that game too by the way.

I must check the program at home.
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:52 am

Freddy Krueger wrote:
Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Freddy Krueger wrote:
I know Stuart better than you think Ohto. I was at the All Ireland Final in 07 and 08, I got the years mixed up.

Were at the game yourself on Saturday night by the way?

SMS did not play against Tyrone in 2008.  

No I wasn't at the game. I live abroad. Got up to watch it.

Was sure he came on for second half, are you sure about that? I was at that game too by the way.

I must check the program at home.

Unless the match report I checked was wrong. Possible but unlikely. My general point is that I think you twist facts and select the ones that support your argument.
Like you paint Peter Kelly as some obscure player McGeeney found. He played full-back for UCD in Sigerson. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he might be worth a look.
It's all black and white with you lads. McGeeney was perfect, Ryan is abysmal. We get slated now for losing to Meath in February. But we forget they kicked the shyte out of us in championship in 2012. Cork destroyed us the same year. In 2013 we had our worst defeat to the filth in 116 years of football.
The reality is we have struggled for the past three years, two under Geezer, one under Ryan. The fact that this coincided with Earley and Flynn being gone/past their best and Johnny being over his brilliant peak is not a coincidence.
We were all hopeful the 2010 minors/2013 U21s would replace such players. Two are in Australia, one in England.
It's just all gone to shyte. As a friend said to me after the Monaghan game last season, the older lads are past it, the younger lads aren't up to it.
A different manager might make us harder to beat but the players aren't there to challenge for silverware like they were in 2010 and 2011.

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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:54 am

For the record I don't think he should go now, time for that in July. But it's kind of catch 22. Those who were angered by McGeeney going and warned of the consequences aren't allowed bring it up now and have to move on meanwhile those who said it was right just say stop living in the past - they can't lose but Kildare sure did. You might say what's point in looking back, but while McGeeney won't be back, those lingering who made such a decision need to be reminded of it and their stupidity should be kept away from future decisions. Club delegates are included in that.

But a complete overhaul is needed from top of county board down to the way we produce players, to the management, to the way clubs see things to fundraising to structures to attitude. As of now, we're getting the team we deserve given all that is around the team, including Ryan and much, much more.

PS OTB, not black and white for me, Johnston was shocking, we'd a few lapses in Leinster but cycle one had finished and a new one was about to begin, just entire structure seemed to be in a better place much down to the management who looked at underage, fundraising, attitude etc etc. All that went with him without a clue who to replace him in order to maintain or improve. The second best era in Kildare football in our lifetimes (I say that based on consistency although back door plays a part) not only ended but has been dismantled in two years, it's fairly spectacular. Used to laugh at a lot of other fans in other counties slagging McGeeney and Kildare, talking about being overrated, never beat a big team but they were obsessed and we garnered attention. Now we are no ones.

Granted, even after Ryan I don't think that will change. As I say, an overhaul with a short, medium and long-term plan in all areas is needed to be drawn up and strictly implemented. I have zero faith in this happening from people that won't even accept help or advice. They are sure they know best, which suggests egos and stubbornness to match inability. We all know what needs to be done, but we're alone on this it would seem. Frustrating. Depressing. And fairly desperate.


Last edited by TommyKeegan on Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:04 am

I reiterate that on balance I would have preferred McGeeney to stay but has Jason Ryan really brought us lower than this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsaC7OnibLs

Or this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qTj8bCPc00

At least we are agreed on the need for a complete overhaul of Kildare GAA. At county board level I mean. Many clubs are superbly run and doing an excellent job.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:11 am

I wasnt in favour of Jason, but did favour change.. Having watched the Monaghan v Cork Match Yesterday, I am so relieved were not in Div 1, as I reckon we would be embarrased out the Gate.
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Flamingo
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:22 am

Here here Seamus. Christ watching the Div 1 games on TV I shudder to think how we'd cope.
I mean the speed of movement is not in a different league but it's like a different sport compared to our slow lateral play.

Anyway to the question at hand...Why would we make the same mistake again. Clubs decided that McGeeney had to go. But had no real thought put into the next step.
Now people are thinking Ryan has to go but yet again there is no future planning.
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:33 am

Someone carried out a poll on what people here wanted as regards our manager before the Clubs voted. If I remember correctly most people here wanted McGeeney to stay but with changes to his backroom team. Maybe someone could resurrect that thread and put to bed the belief that most people apart from 3 or 4 posters wanted him out.
I believe the majority did not belive he should have gone like that but were willing to accept Ryan once he was appointed. A few never accepted the decision and seem to glory in Kildare's misfortune since which is sad.
Maybe the time has come for a truce and all support our team and only deal in constructive criticism.
Too much to hope for?
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:35 am

SC I'll think you'll find Pat Mangan had a fairly large hand in it.

It matters not now anyway, that boat has sailed as have others.

I'm too long watching Kildare to be arguing over the Internet. But I can't remember the last time I was so frustrated and angry at watching us. There seems no future if we don't change radically on an off the pitch.

I genuinely think the off the pitch stuff is taking a bigger toll than we might imagine. Ryan as I have said is not doing the job to the required level but I have to be fair to him and say he is working with one hand tied behind his back. The CB have a lot to answer for. But it's coming to a head soon I would imagine. People who care passionately about Kildare GAA can see its run in a desperately amateurish way by people who no doubt care but are just not up to it.

A radical change in direction is overdue.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:38 am

Don't think reveling, but sometimes barely treading water can cover the fact you're a bad swimmer, but near drowning could lead to a wake-up call. I'd rather us to get relegated and an overhaul as I stated in an above post with short-, medium-, and long-terms plans in all areas brought into force than another 10 years of ticking by as an underachieving county. For me that's the best scenario and involves losing badly.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:53 am

It is very easy when people say, 'Oh Jesus you have lost again' when the reality is we have lost a game by two points. The last day we were winning with a few seconds left and we lost it so we're not being outclassed."

Jason Ryan isn't pressing the panic button just yet.

Not like the rest of us eh Jason. pale
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:03 am

TommyKeegan wrote:
For the record I don't think he should go now, time for that in July. But it's kind of catch 22. Those who were angered by McGeeney going and warned of the consequences aren't allowed bring it up now and have to move on meanwhile those who said it was right just say stop living in the past - they can't lose but Kildare sure did. You might say what's point in looking back, but while McGeeney won't be back, those lingering who made such a decision need to be reminded of it and their stupidity should be kept away from future decisions. Club delegates are included in that.

But a complete overhaul is needed from top of county board down to the way we produce players, to the management, to the way clubs see things to fundraising to structures to attitude. As of now, we're getting the team we deserve given all that is around the team, including Ryan and much, much more.

PS OTB, not black and white for me, Johnston was shocking, we'd a few lapses in Leinster but cycle one had finished and a new one was about to begin, just entire structure seemed to be in a better place much down to the management who looked at underage, fundraising, attitude etc etc. All that went with him without a clue who to replace him in order to maintain or improve. The second best era in Kildare football in our lifetimes (I say that based on consistency although back door plays a part) not only ended but has been dismantled in two years, it's fairly spectacular. Used to laugh at a lot of other fans in other counties slagging McGeeney and Kildare, talking about being overrated, never beat a big team but they were obsessed and we garnered attention. Now we are no ones.

Granted, even after Ryan I don't think that will change. As I say, an overhaul with a short, medium and long-term plan in all areas is needed to be drawn up and strictly implemented. I have zero faith in this happening from people that won't even accept help or advice. They are sure they know best, which suggests egos and stubbornness to match inability. We all know what needs to be done, but we're alone on this it would seem. Frustrating. Depressing. And fairly desperate.

See Tommy this is where I can agree with you 100%
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:42 am

I only want what is best for Kildare GAA. I want someone over us who who is going to get the best out of what we have.

We are not going to be All Ireland contenders year after year, that is a fact. We are not going to be Leinster contenders years after year for that matter. But what I would like is to dine at the top table. Be one of the top 8/10 teams in the country and push the tops teams when we do meet them.

I don't believe this is being overly ambitious given the size of our county, population and the actual interest in GAA within the county.

McGeeney delivered on the above for me, I don't think anyone can dispute that fact. Jason Ryan currently isn't and we seem to be going the opposite direction.

What also seems to be escaping criticism here is our S&C. I've yet to see any benefits of moving away from the regime under McGeeney which was heavily criticised and Julie Davis berated and belittled on this very forum.

Yes I'm in mourning for 2010/2011/2012 and the success we had those years. A crossbar away from an All Ireland Final. A CROSSBAR. Taking Donegal to extra time in an epic match with, a roller coaster of emotions. Div 2 winners against Tyrone, Div 1 Semi Finalists the following year playing Saturday night games under lights in Croker and getting good money for doing so. Those were the days.

As TommyKeegan said earlier, we're a nobody now. Not worth writing or talking about. That for me is as depressing as our results.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:01 am

Freddy Krueger wrote:
I only want what is best for Kildare GAA. I want someone over us who who is going to get the best out of what we have.

We are not going to be All Ireland contenders year after year, that is a fact. We are not going to be Leinster contenders years after year for that matter. But what I would like is to dine at the top table. Be one of the top 8/10 teams in the country and push the tops teams when we do meet them.

I don't believe this is being overly ambitious given the size of our county, population and the actual interest in GAA within the county.

McGeeney delivered on the above for me, I don't think anyone can dispute that fact. Jason Ryan currently isn't and we seem to be going the opposite direction.

What also seems to be escaping criticism here is our S&C. I've yet to see any benefits of moving away from the regime under McGeeney which was heavily criticised and Julie Davis berated and belittled on this very forum.

Yes I'm in mourning for 2010/2011/2012 and the success we had those years. A crossbar away from an All Ireland Final. A CROSSBAR. Taking Donegal to extra time in an epic match with, a roller coaster of emotions. Div 2 winners against Tyrone, Div 1 Semi Finalists the following year playing Saturday night games under lights in Croker and getting good money for doing so. Those were the days.

As TommyKeegan said earlier, we're a nobody now. Not worth writing or talking about. That for me is as depressing as our results.

...nah..the "days" were winning Leinsters and playing in All-Ireland finals. If Mayo and Tyrone can consistently do it I see no reason why we cannot aspire to that too (in an ideal world)...as many others have pointed out there are so many problems in Kildare GAA that it makes it virtually impossible to do so at the moment. I'm for once in agreement with Tommy...the old plans need to be thrown out and lets start again. We dont know how to win big matches and havent done for a long time.
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:38 am

''...nah..the "days" were winning Leinsters and playing in All-Ireland final''

Thats 3 days in the last 60 years

Get a Grip.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:59 am

It wasn't SMS who started full forward against Tyrone in 2008, it was Padraig Mullarkey. He got a goal late on to salvage a draw. 1-5 to 0-8 I think it finished.

The fundraising/sponsorship/Club Kildare/County Board stuff isn't something Ryan can influence much so there's not really much point discussing that on this thread.

From a tactical viewpoint, I believe the thinking behind what Kildare are trying to do so far this year is fairly sound. Our backs have been too exposed for a number of years and funneling more men back should help address that. The problem is the execution of those tactics at the moment is bloody awful. There are a few issues as I see it:

- You need to keep more than one forward up there. Even if Podge wins the ball he has to try and hold onto it against multiple defenders and wait for support. That's a thankless task. Mulhall, Smith, Dowling or whoever else plays alongside him has to stay within twenty yards and be looking for an instant layoff on the loop around the D.

- If you have thirteen men inside your own 45 you need ball carriers who can attack space at speed. Our first goal against Monaghan last year is the perfect example of how effective this tactic can be when executed properly. Simple layoff from an inside forward to a runner who has attacked the space in behind the defence. Bolton has made a career off that type of run. I don't think the half forward line and midfield we had on Saturday are suitable to that role apart from maybe Keith Cribbin (although he made a mess of a great chance late on). Look back at the amount of times Leper and Flats had the ball and slowed it up running sideways across the field. If Kildare are to make a success of this tactic quick ball carriers like Paul Cribbin, Dan Flynn and possibly Cathal McNally are going to have to be accommodated in the team. They're the guys we need carrying the ball inside the opposition's half and committing opposition defenders creating overlaps. On Saturday we broke through on a handful of occasions, the ball ended up with players like Fitzpatrick, O'Grady and O'Neill and we failed to commit Meath defenders and work possible goal chances.

- The blanket defence thrives on turnovers. If you have 13 men back, they need to put pressure on the ball. Tackling has to be clean and accurate. Look at the amount of times on Saturday we had a Meath forward under pressure or in an unpromising position and then undid that good work by fouling and giving them a pressure free shot at the goals. When you do force the turnover you have to look to move the ball quickly to exploit the space. On Saturday we had lads forcing a turnover and then taking way too much out of the ball ambling up the field with it.

- If we are going to concede short kickouts to the opposition, you have to pressure the ball long before they work it up to our 45. The amount of times over the last three weekends we conceded possession from the short kickout and then watched as the other team worked it up into our half before laying a glove on them was ridiculous.

Can Ryan address these problems? I'm sure we all have doubts at this stage although to be fair to him such a fundamental change to the way Kildare play is not going to happen seamlessly overnight. These appear to be more than just teething issues but we may see some improvements if we get the right players fit and make a few tweaks to the system. We have gone from being too positive last year and leaving ourselves open at the back to being far too negative. Ryan has to find that balance fairly sharpish.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:24 am

Leadership is badly missing especially in the forwards. We've no one to organise things and no go to man when the shit hits the fan.....what about getting Johnny out of retirement! !!!! Is it a realistic option?
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:51 am

Good post kickingking. I think you've summed up our some of our problems fairly well.
Our half forward line did look very one-paced on Saturday. Maybe with the 3 week break, some of those players mentioned might come into contention for the Westmeath game. I definitely think we need more pace here if we are going to keep playing the same way.
Surely we don't have to bring as many men behind the ball and can afford to leave 3 forwards up the pitch at all times. We're not creating nearly as many chances as we need to.
I don't think we should be conceding short kick-outs to the opposition. We looked better against Dublin when we pushed up on their kick-outs and I don't know why we've stopped doing it. We can always drop men back if we lose the kick-out. I'd like to see us trying to win the ball back quicker and higher up the pitch.
We are giving away way too many frees at the back. O'Rourke and Newman missed a lot of frees otherwise we could have lost by a lot more. When we've checked the opposition and they are going nowhere, we should be trying to make them overplay the ball rather than trying to win the ball off them.
Hopefully with the 3 week break, these issues can be addressed and we can see a big improvement for the next day. If we lose against Westmeath it will be hard to see us staying up.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:11 am

I'm glad that the majority of the poll have a sense of perspective and can see that you don't panic in february after two league games and that the management should get a fair crack at getting things right, I supported the previous manager for the 6 years he was there (with a very similar record at this stage), I am a Kildare supporter and I believe that means getting behind the team and management while they are in place, I was extremely disappointed the way we played the last day, and a lot of that rests with the management, but I do think they deserve a fair crack of the whip without people calling for their heads every time we lose a game. We are a young team, and that has its advantages and drawbacks, Realistically this team won't reach its peak for maybe another 5 years, but that doesn't stop you having ambition to be challenging at the latter end of the ch'ship each year (with a bit of luck). The manner of the removal of the previous manager and the appointment of this one was very badly conducted, and some are still obviously very annoyed about this, but that shouldn't be used as a stick to beat the current manager at every turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:29 pm

+ 1 Good post esb
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:39 pm

e.s.b. wrote:
... you don't panic in february after two league games and that the management should get a fair crack at getting things right...  I do think they deserve a fair crack of the whip without people calling for their heads every time we lose a game. We are a young team, and that has its advantages and drawbacks... The manner of the removal of the previous manager and the appointment of this one was very badly conducted, and some are still obviously very annoyed about this, but that shouldn't be used as a stick to beat the current manager at every turn.
I realise I'm quoting you in short bursts here e.s.b but a few thoughts on what you say:
For me, it's not panic in February, it's frustration in February 2015 but a frustration that has been building since last Spring and our dire showing in Division 1.
I think J R Has had a fair crack of the whip but I would say that a number of the players have also had a fair crack of the whip. I think it's fair that supporters expect a modicum of the basics from management and players. I fully accept, as has been said elsewhere, that J R may well be hindered by an inept (that's being polite) County Board. The generality of County Board officers across the country fit into that category but at least McGeeney had the neck/balls/both to stand up to them and get on with it - which cost him his job.
I'm not impressed by the levels of ability in the players - that may be down to their own inability or to a failure of management or both ...but it is more than frustrating.
The training and physical fitness of a team is best left to those who know how to get them fit. The management of a team, however, is about inspiration and vision. I see signs of neither in the current set-up, at Board or management level. What we need is a manager who can inspire in spite of the shortcomings of the County Board as a whole. We don't have such a person in place...
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:03 pm

What we need is a manager who can inspire in spite of the shortcomings of the County Board as a whole. We don't have such a person in place...[/quote]
Do you know any such person Tom? Was there anyone available when Ryan was appointed? Maybe not as easy to find one as you think.
You can only judge a manager on what he has achieved to date and Ryan had come closer to winning a Leinster title more often than McGeeney had.
Personally I would have liked to see McStay have a go but maybe the CB thought Ryan was a safer bet and a more seamless transition.
Was it not much the same group of people who appointed McGeeney and that didn't work out too badly did it?
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:21 am

murof wrote:
What we need is a manager who can inspire in spite of the shortcomings of the County Board as a whole. We don't have such a person in place...
Do you know any such person Tom? Was there anyone available when Ryan was appointed? Maybe not as easy to find one as you think.
[/quote]

Thought McStay ideal in that role. Respected, a winner in terms of management, commands respect because of his work in army and analysis and the type of brain to sort out a mess by convincing people the best way to do things. Anyway, ship sailed.
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PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:34 am

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Just to illustrate the players thing: In the first few years of his reign, Kieran had Dermot Earley or Darryl Flynn and sometimes both to play midfield. He had one of the best forwards in the country, John Doyle. He had a host of good inter-county players like Morgan O'Flaherty, Hugh McGrillen, Mick Foley, Leper, James Kavanagh, Alan Smith and Emmet Bolton.

Even those who remain are past their best, with the possible exception of Bolton.

Of the new players, Eoin Doyle is the only one who consistently looks capable of playing to the level of any of the above.

You can play any formation you like, but without outstanding players, results are going to be worse.

Everyone repeats this mantra about what good players we have. I don't see it. Which of our players would get a championship start with Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Mayo or Donegal?

I think only Doyle on current form. Bolton, if he remains at his best, might sneak on to one or two of those teams.

If you think different, then name them, and tell me who you'd drop from any of those teams.

great point!
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