Kildare Gaa Fans Forum

Kildare Gaa Fans Forum

Kildare Gaa, Football & Hurling Fans discussion board.
 
HomeRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

As it stands do you back Jason Ryan to continue as manager
Yes - He's building a team and needs time.
8%
 8% [ 5 ]
No - He was a wrong choice, replace now.
25%
 25% [ 15 ]
Until end of season and assess again.
52%
 52% [ 32 ]
Until end of season and replace
15%
 15% [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 61
 

AuthorMessage
TommyKeegan
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1574
Join date : 2010-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:39 am

lily4fr wrote:
Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Just to illustrate the players thing: In the first few years of his reign, Kieran had Dermot Earley or Darryl Flynn and sometimes both to play midfield. He had one of the best forwards in the country, John Doyle. He had a host of good inter-county players like Morgan O'Flaherty, Hugh McGrillen, Mick Foley, Leper, James Kavanagh, Alan Smith and Emmet Bolton.

Even those who remain are past their best, with the possible exception of Bolton.

Of the new players, Eoin Doyle is the only one who consistently looks capable of playing to the level of any of the above.

You can play any formation you like, but without outstanding players, results are going to be worse.

Everyone repeats this mantra about what good players we have. I don't see it. Which of our players would get a championship start with Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Mayo or Donegal?

I think only Doyle on current form. Bolton, if he remains at his best, might sneak on to one or two of those teams.

If you think different, then name them, and tell me who you'd drop from any of those teams.

great point!

But surely the job of a manager and coaches is to identify potential and maximise it. Other than Earley and JD, where were these guys before McGeeney and where did he bring them after his first cycle when they'd given their all? As opposed to the above, look at the guys who grew under McGeeney into serious players and ask where are their performance and confidence levels now? And even if you think we simply don't have the potential now, are we getting anywhere near the most out of our players, because I refuse to believe that squad if at best (manager's job) is 15th/16th/17th best in Ireland.
Back to top Go down
lily4fr
Junior A
Junior A


Posts : 40
Join date : 2011-01-06

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:07 am

TommyKeegan wrote:
lily4fr wrote:
Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Just to illustrate the players thing: In the first few years of his reign, Kieran had Dermot Earley or Darryl Flynn and sometimes both to play midfield. He had one of the best forwards in the country, John Doyle. He had a host of good inter-county players like Morgan O'Flaherty, Hugh McGrillen, Mick Foley, Leper, James Kavanagh, Alan Smith and Emmet Bolton.

Even those who remain are past their best, with the possible exception of Bolton.

Of the new players, Eoin Doyle is the only one who consistently looks capable of playing to the level of any of the above.

You can play any formation you like, but without outstanding players, results are going to be worse.

Everyone repeats this mantra about what good players we have. I don't see it. Which of our players would get a championship start with Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Mayo or Donegal?

I think only Doyle on current form. Bolton, if he remains at his best, might sneak on to one or two of those teams.

If you think different, then name them, and tell me who you'd drop from any of those teams.

great point!

But surely the job of a manager and coaches is to identify potential and maximise it. Other than Earley and JD, where were these guys before McGeeney and where did he bring them after his first cycle when they'd given their all? As opposed to the above, look at the guys who grew under McGeeney into serious players and ask where are their performance and confidence levels now? And even if you think we simply don't have the potential now, are we getting anywhere near the most out of our players, because I refuse to believe that squad if at best (manager's job) is 15th/16th/17th best in Ireland.

I just think is easy to overlook the role that players like johnny and dermot had during McGeeneys tenure. I mean, dermot almost won games on his own in 2010! And to be fair to JR, i seriously dont think there is that sort of potential in this present squad... certainly not in midfield anyway. There seems to be an complete lack of players with the ability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and drive us over the line! Maybe I'm over simplifying things?!

Having said that, I am still somewhat disappoined at the way in which we started this league campaign... but to suggest that the manager be sacked after 2 games is ludicrous. Here's hoping that we can put in some decent performances upon resumption of the league, stay in Div 2 and get some sort of a run the championship. "Hoping" being the word I place most emphasis on after that awful display at the weekend Smile
Back to top Go down
tomoneillandhissisteranne
Intercounty
Intercounty


Posts : 435
Join date : 2011-01-10

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:32 am

murof wrote:
What we need is a manager who can inspire in spite of the shortcomings of the County Board as a whole. We don't have such a person in place...
Do you know any such person Tom? Was there anyone available when Ryan was appointed? Maybe not as easy to find one as you think.
You can only judge a manager on what he has achieved to date and Ryan had come closer to winning a Leinster title more often than McGeeney had.
Personally I would have liked to see McStay have a go but maybe the CB thought Ryan was a safer bet and a more seamless transition.
Was it not much the same group of people who appointed McGeeney and that didn't work out too badly did it?[/quote]
I take your point but the notion of the seamless transition seemed more like a hassle-free decision (in terms of searching out new blood) than a thought out process. McStay was one possibility, if available. I don't have a welter of names to hand but it seems to me that we needed/need someone who can inspire as much as organise.
Back to top Go down
murof
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1113
Join date : 2010-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:57 am

McStay was available, he said so himself on the Sunday Game. It was a missed oppurtunity and maybe the CB did take the easy option.
A Cork player, originally from the North, on todays Indo said that it takes at least a year to implement a defensive style of play and that in his opinion 95% of teams hadn't a clue how to operate a sweeper.
Looks like our season is not going to get a lot better so!
Back to top Go down
Sam1928
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 985
Join date : 2010-07-01
Age : 88
Location : Down the M7

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:44 pm

lilysavage wrote:
''...nah..the "days" were winning Leinsters and playing in All-Ireland final''

Thats 3 days in the last 60 years

Get a Grip.

eh?...care to explain...did you bother reading the whole post and the context with Freddie Krugers who talked about the days of close defeats in the back door?

1998-2003 (5 years)
Played in 4 Leinster Finals and won 2. Played in an All-Ireland Final

2004-2014 (10 years)
Played in 1 Leinster final and lost.

With reference to the best days of Kildare football...that period from 98-03 was as successful as it gets for all of us here unless you are aged about 100+

The only silverware that matters to us is Leinster and Sam...and we are further away than we have ever been.

Saying it again...clear it all out and start again from top to bottom because its not working and hasnt for a long time.
Back to top Go down
lilysavage
Intercounty
Intercounty


Posts : 461
Join date : 2011-11-25

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:14 am

Does anyone seriously expect manager to be changed after 2 League games? When do GAA managers ever change midseason ?
Back to top Go down
bag of white
Intercounty
Intercounty


Posts : 447
Join date : 2010-07-15

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:25 am

lilysavage wrote:
Does anyone seriously expect manager to be changed after 2 League games? When do GAA managers ever change midseason ?

That's a good point. Paul Bealin didn't win a game all year with Westmeath last year yet he was left in the job until the end of the season. Ryan will be given until the end of the year at least.
Back to top Go down
Bad News Baba
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 701
Join date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:20 am

How exactly did that work out for Westmeath. Bealin got the push at the end of a disastrous year. If he had gone earlier they might have had a kick in them.
Cribbin has them looking like a team reborn.
Same players different managers ethos and preparation. Changing manager can actually have a positive result.
They have just rattled Galway big time on Sunday. If they take a point or points away from Newbridge, Ryan is done for.

Kildare are dying by a death of a thousand cuts. One setback won't be terminal, many setbacks will. We are close to flat lining.
Back to top Go down
bag of white
Intercounty
Intercounty


Posts : 447
Join date : 2010-07-15

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:33 am

Bad News Baba wrote:
How exactly did that work out for Westmeath. Bealin got the push at the end of a disastrous year.  If he had gone earlier they might have had a kick in them.
Cribbin has them looking like a team reborn.
Same players different managers ethos and preparation. Changing manager can actually have a positive result.
They have just rattled Galway big time on Sunday. If they take a point or points away from Newbridge, Ryan is done for.

Kildare are dying by a death of a thousand cuts. One setback won't be terminal, many setbacks will.  We are close to flat lining.

It didn't work out but it's the reality of the situation in the GAA. The point is it's very rare a manager is sacked mid-term in the GAA even in an utterly disastrous term like Bealin's in Westmeath. It isn't like the premier league.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:57 am

bag of white wrote:


It didn't work out but it's the reality of the situation in the GAA. The point is it's very rare a manager is sacked mid-term in the GAA even in an utterly disastrous term like Bealin's in Westmeath. It isn't like the premier league.

You see that's what I don't get. If someone isn't performing in their job in the normal outside world (unless you work in the public sector and that's another debate) your performance is questioned and ultimately would be moved on from your position.

If Ryan is not performing, which I believe he isn't why wait until the end of the season. Why waste 4/5 months of lads lives training for nothing. That's a full season of a footballers career and everyone knows if your lucky you might only get 6/7/8 seasons now as a county footballer at the top level. Why waste the county boards money which is being raised by the clubs might I add for someone who is a busted flush.
Back to top Go down
murof
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1113
Join date : 2010-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:02 am

Freddy, you could have made the same case for getting rid of McGeeney in June 08 after getting us relegated and losing to Wicklow while playing a primitive style of football. He tried unsuccessfully to turn Dermot Earley into a full forward before realising the error of his ways and restoring him to midfield where he won an All Star the following year.
We all agree Ryan has been a disappointment but what can we gain from getting rid of him at this stage? Who could we get that would want the job and be guaranteed to improve us? For what it's worth I think with Flynn and Cribben back we will be a different team with a lot more pace around the middle. There are a lot of good players available to us and I think we a lot better than we have looked so far.
Back to top Go down
Sam1928
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 985
Join date : 2010-07-01
Age : 88
Location : Down the M7

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:06 pm

In my opinion realistic targets for Kildare should always be :

All Ireland Q/F
Promotion to Div 1
Leinster Final

All 3 of those should definately be within our reach each year. Managers should be judged on those.
Ryan achieved none of those last year so the pressure is on this year. I'll wait until the end of the season but if none of the 3 above are met then he has to move on. Promotion looks unlikely now and Dublin are in our half of Leinster so its not looking good for him. Those targets are not the be all and end all of judging a manager. Style of play, team morale, even luck with results comes in to play I think anyway.
Back to top Go down
Ohtoohtobe
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1068
Join date : 2010-07-03

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:01 am

It would be a bit harsh to judge him for not getting to a Leinster final this year with Dublin on our half of the draw. Last time we beat them on our way to a Leinster final was 1998.
I agree we should be aiming to be a top eight side in league and championship though. If Donnelly had been penalised for taking more than 10 steps in the Tyrone game last year and McManus had not been handed a soft free for the last kick against Monaghan, this would have been achieved.
I'm not trying to blame refs - ultimately we weren't quite good enough - but I am pointing out that we were a very small margin away from fulfilling 2 of your 3 criteria.
Back to top Go down
Bad News Baba
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 701
Join date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:56 pm

Nope, not having any of that. You get the results you deserve. You can go through every manager and say if this had happened or if that had happened then they would have done this or that. The bottom line is it didn't and they couldn't. This manger is no different.
It's a typical Kildare response, plenty of "ifs" and "buts" with no responsibility attached to anyone for a complete systems failure on more than one occasion.
His record over one year is astonishingly bad.

4 points up against Meath with 25 minutes to go and we lost
5 points up against Tyrone with 90 seconds and we lost.
3 points up against Down with 60 seconds left and we lost.
1 point up against Monaghan with 20 seconds left and we lost.

In competitive games League and Championship under Ryan

League
Mayo   Won
Cork    Lost
Tyrone Lost
Dublin  Lost
Kerry   Lost
Derry   Lost
Westmeath Won
Down   Lost
Meath   Lost

Championship
Louth   Won
Meath  Lost

Qualifiers
Down Won
Clare Won
Monagahan Lost

Played 14 lost 9 Won 5 win rate 35% A fail in anyone's language.
Back to top Go down
Sam1928
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 985
Join date : 2010-07-01
Age : 88
Location : Down the M7

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:45 pm

Bad News Baba wrote:


4 points up against Meath with 25 minutes to go and we lost
5 points up against Tyrone with 90 seconds and we lost.
3 points up against Down with 60 seconds left and we lost.
1 point up against Monaghan with 20 seconds left and we lost.


pretty damning stats there for sure but I'll put this out there...with such little time left in all those games can the manager be blamed or is it a complete systems failure on behalf of the players?.... who I think are lacking mental toughness and a winning mentality anyway..then again you could argue thats the managers job to instill that.
Back to top Go down
murof
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1113
Join date : 2010-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:13 pm

A lot of the fault lies with the players who simply do not have the meanness needed at the top level. No one can dispute the amount of work McGeeney did on the mental hardness of the players but they failed to get over the end line in 09 and 11 against a 14 man Dublin who were a pale shadow of the current team.
If Limerick had the same wiinning mentality they would have hauled Bolton down in 12 as he ran the lenght of the pitch in Portlaoise to score the equaliser and we wouldn't have made a Q/F that year.
I repeat again that Kerry, Tyrone or Dublin would not let players to run through at the end of a game.
If McGeeney couldn't change that mindset then Ryan certainly never will. We are simply to nice in this county to be successful. The 98 team had some tough guys like Ryan, Lacey and Dalton and it showed in the way they played.
Back to top Go down
Bad News Baba
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 701
Join date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:17 pm

Absolutely the players must take a portion of responsibility and they have been guilty of some terribly naive in game decisions.

That is why as I said the systems should be in place to take the impulsive silly decision away from the players until they learn the right thing to do. Systems that if you are winning by 3,4,5 or 10 points at the end of a game the players know exactly what their job is and how to close it out. We are like kids in a school yard. Everyone running after the football, no discipline, no plan in place to cope if certain scenarios happen.
It is every man for himself defending, what we need is and I can't say it enough is a default position the players go to when the pressure comes on or a game needs closing out.

It also goes for if you are losing, a system should be there. You don't go to work and do things as you see fit or a different way every day. You do your work according to a plan or specification and the more you do it right the better and quicker you get at it until it becomes second nature.

If Ryan is to survive he needs proper systems, having watched him go from all out attack last year to all out defence this year, both being unsuccessful. It appears he is no closer to getting the systems in place he needs to be managing come July.
Back to top Go down
Sam1928
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 985
Join date : 2010-07-01
Age : 88
Location : Down the M7

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:57 am

Good points made there. Anybody any insight into inter county tactics or even high level club tactics?...do you actually have default tactics in the remaining minutes of games to close the game down or how to re-act under pressure if a late goal goes in?

Systems and tactics can be like comfort blankets when the going gets tough and the pressure comes on.

Agree that it appears when the you know what hits the fan in a kildare game the whole thing just collapses around us..so much evidence of it as Baba has rightly shown.
Back to top Go down
Gaa1928
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 802
Join date : 2013-07-22

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:25 am

As we already said, we sometimes have 12, 13 sometimes 15 men behind the ball, so whats the suggestion, that we bring on all the subs as well for the last 5 minutes to see out matches ??? I don't blame the manger in so far as we normally have 15 players on the pitch and its up to them to see out the match. We have clubs teams in Kildare who do it by thinking on their feet themselves.
Back to top Go down
Ohtoohtobe
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1068
Join date : 2010-07-03

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:20 am

System this, system that, I hate that word. It's a catch-all buzz phrase that some people reckon can explain every aspect of why a team won or lost.

What system would have stopped Mark Donnellan deciding not to catch/fist the high ball in the last minute against Down?
What system would have led to Podge scoring the penalty against Down?

Yes tactics and formation are important but the way some people go on you would think how players play had nothing to do with it.


(I'm sorry to single those lads out. I mean nothing personal by it. We all make mistakes and there's loads of other incidents I could have picked.)
Back to top Go down
topcat
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1258
Join date : 2010-07-31

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:24 pm

In fairness OTB, when it is happening on a consistent basis as outlined above then it is a system failure. Yes individual errors will happy over the course of a game but to throw away leads on a regular basis like we have done over the last 12 months or so can be put down as a system failure.
Back to top Go down
Ohtoohtobe
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1068
Join date : 2010-07-03

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:12 pm

Topcat I disagree. If we're talking about late collapses then the Tyrone and Down games are the only ones that qualify. That's two leads blown late in two years. One stemmed from an awful line ball, awful defending, awful refereeing decision (Donnelly took more than 10 steps) and awful goalkeeping.
I wasn't at the Down game but awful goalkeeping and general panic seem to have been the culprits.
Talk about systems all you like: we choked in those games and players must take responsibility.

If it's all down to the manager's tactics, how come we finish some games strong and mess up winning positions in others? There's a fair few tight games where we finished much the stronger.

Level with Mayo in injury time and we won;
Twelve points down to Meath and we cut it to four;
Three points down to Clare at half-time and we won;
Level with Down with less than 15 minutes left and we destroyed them;
And in the very same Monaghan game we were two down, kicked three in a row, and then Lyons "fouled" McManus.

Was it a system that led us to finish these games strongly?

And when you say "system failure", what exactly do you mean? I'm not trying to be smart there. I could be wrong. But I genuinely don't know what lads mean when they suggest a "system" that will help us hold five-point leads in injury time.
Back to top Go down
Bad News Baba
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 701
Join date : 2010-12-18

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:55 pm

Systems let you compete with the best teams when you don't have players of equal ability.

Did you think Donegal played off the cuff when McGuinness transformed them. That team was the best drilled team in the history of the GAA. Their system was drilled into them time and time again and it allowed them to compete with and eventually become the best.

You say you weren't at the Down game, I was and the defending prior to the goal was an accident waiting to happen. Donnellan made the mistake but the chaos of players running around after Down players and then fouling, then chatting back which brought the ball forward were the signs of players not knowing what they were supposed to do or where they were supposed to be.

You mention other games there, the Mayo game was a good win but if you had been at it you would have seen Mayo cut through us time and time again missing goal chances each time, the fact we were 12 points down to Meath in the first place negates any moral comeback.

Beating Clare by a point is not something I'd be hanging my coat on either.

A system failure is where a team has no shape, no cuteness, no tactical plan which allows teams to win not once not twice but three times when they were behind going into the last minute.

The days of sending lads out to play as they wish and the best players come out on top are over.
Back to top Go down
HauntedGraffiti
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1205
Join date : 2013-01-12

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:26 pm

Doesn't look like Dermot Earley has much faith in the manager to pull off a Jim McGuinness-style tactical coup anytime soon.

He's in the papers today talking about various matters. He was asked about the state of Leinster football, and Dermot's reply was basically, Dublin will walk it for the next five years!
Back to top Go down
Stonecold
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1089
Join date : 2010-07-04

PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:02 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
Doesn't look like Dermot Earley has much faith in the manager to pull off a Jim McGuinness-style tactical coup anytime soon.

He's in the papers today talking about various matters. He was asked about the state of Leinster football, and Dermot's reply was basically, Dublin will walk it for the next five years!

See that's the sort of horseshit comment that bugs me, what about the dysfunctional county board, what about the lack of unity, what about the poor sponsorship, what about the embarrassment of a county ground. Serious lack of pride & unity across the whole GAA set-up on a county level but we will fail over the next 5 years solely because of JR, rubbish!
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.   

Back to top Go down
 
Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 8Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Do you back Jason Ryan to continue as Kildare manager.
» Coaching seminar clane
» Where do we sit?
» New Kildare selector
» Kildare's Manager 2014

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Kildare Gaa Fans Forum :: General Football Discussion-
Jump to: