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 Kildare v Roscommon

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Flamingo
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:50 am

Listening to Peter Mc on Kfm talk of lack of honesty from players...and lack of unity walking off the field in dribs and drabs....There must be an awful atmosphere in the Kildare camp now.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:09 am

Flamingo wrote:
Listening to Peter Mc on Kfm talk of lack of honesty from players...and lack of unity walking off the field in dribs and drabs....There must be an awful atmosphere in the Kildare camp now.
yep flamingo spot on , i hadnt been in hawkfield on a tue / thu for a while and went over last week . Jasus , the lack of unity in the camp is a major concern
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:17 am

there NO players have pride for kildare jersey   hello division 3 (on moblie )


Last edited by fone on Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:29 am

English please fone. Are you insinuating that the current squad have no pride in the jersey?

That's 1980's approach to coaching and management fone and complete and utter nonsense. These lads are suppose to be the closest thing to professional. Pride doesn't come into it If they are prepared to the level required by a competent management team.

If Roscommon can stick us for 24 points at home. I dread to think what the Dubs would do to us in Croker. Not that I need to worry.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:34 am

I don't rate Ryan at all (I may have made that clear of late!) but I left that ground today wondering whether any manager could coach some of those fellas. This may seem harsh but for as many years as ie been watching (and that's almost 40 now) we seem to produce the most gormless, brainless footballers in all of Ireland. Was Ryan responsible for Eoghan Flats taking a free on the half way line and knocking it back to Conway on his own '45? Two or three Hail Mary passes later and we were losing the ball in midfield (yet again..).

I'm too downhearted to go into the match in much detail. Just feel let down by the players more than anything today. We've too many defenders who can't mark (even those with reputations as markers) without fouling, we've no midfielders in the county other than Moolick it seems (crazy bringing him on for injury time mind you), and if anyone still believes we have proper forwards I presume you went watching Roscommon today. As always seems to happen when we play Roscommon or Galway it's like they are playing a different game altogether.. Mobile midfielders who can win their own ball (none of these short kick outs to the 'D'), forwards who line out in the shape of a forward line, get out in front of their man, win it, turn and shoot a point. Simple, basic stuff.

If I didn't realise how poverty-stricken out own performance was I'd be raving about Ros today - they looked a real football team going somewhere. But they need to be judged against proper opposition.

Ps. What the hell happened at the end? I was on my way out early and all I could see over my shoulder was we won a penalty, their keeper seemed to balloon the ball out of the ground, a row ensued and the ref blew up without us getting the chance to take the pen? Is that what happened and is that legal?

The ref was appalling - though not the reason we lost- Ros lads were lying down injured all over the shop for the last 10 minutes and we get the standard "minimum of 2 minutes" added on?? Not that we were going to recover a 6 point deficit.

Div 3 looks a near certainty now and looking at us today you have to wonder whether that's even the lowest we can go. Look at Offaly, a county with more natural footballers than us traditionally.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:39 am

Freddy of course pride comes into it... Skill, guts, pride, leadership, coaching, intelligence... all ingredients in the soup that brings inter-county success. Unfortunately all the evidence is that the current crop and their management are lacking in far too many of the ingredients. If they are so proud, who was standing up there today assuming you went? Who had the balls to ball his fellow player out of it when he did something utterly stupid? Where was the captain when lads were royally screwing up the game for their teammates? Too nice the lot of them from why I can see. Managers a spoofer but the players need to take a look at themselves too.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:00 am

Problem is the Capt isn't exactly in a position to say anything...also the notion that just because you have lots of games under your belt means you are a leader is bollox.
Normally I'd aim for an Eoin Doyle type but then he goes and gets a red and that's not real fight, just a show of frustration.
Going back in only going in Kfm and the disbelief of Peter Mc at the fact that the lads went off on their own. You'd think as he said they would be hauled in and sat in the dressing room for a proper and frank discussion.. Although in reality that's the kind of shite that should have happened after the first three games.
Division 3 FFS!
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:03 am

Explain to me Crofter what exactly is a natural footballer? Is he born with a football in his hand, Colm Cooper the surrogate father, raised by Peter Canavan & Pat Spillane thanks to marriage equality. Mick O'Dwyer and Mickey Harte his god parents and James O'Donohoe babysitting him at weekends? Is that what makes a natural footballer?

We won a Leinster u21 2 years ago. A minor the same year. We lost the minor final last year and the minor in 2009 after a replay. I do not accept we have any worse "natural footballers" footballers in Kildare than any county that has beaten us so far this year in the League.

The trend has been going downwards ever since Jason Ryan took the reigns. We have been steadily shifting heavy scores whilst scoring less and less up front. We are conceding more and more frees and our discipline is nothing short of shambolic. A mountain of free's including 6 socres. More yellows and reds today again, including one for our captain.

Say this out loud : 24 points at home to Roscommon. 18 Scores from play at home to Roscommon, 12 points conceded in either half, 12 being a target which was one more than McGeeney wanted to concede in the whole game.

Our defending is at its worse than I can every remember under any manager. Our attack is completely toothless and lacks any real urgency or direction.

These kinds of things are prepared on the training ground on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday night. They are drilled into players and at the weekend its implemented. Pride plays no part and if it does it's not worth a fiddlers fuck when you are not prepared correctly as a team correctly prepared and drilled will out perform pride every weekend.

I remember after an abject display to Tyrone up in Dungannon by Kildare under McGeeney, they were locked in the dressing room after the game for an hour. McGeeney read them the riot act both in the dessing room and then to the local media afterwards.

Division 3 is a certainty. It's just not mathematically certain yet but its certain.

Someone get Paul Grimley and Niall Carew on the phone.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:18 am

That was absolutely shambolic. No other word I can think of for it. Freddy, pride does come into it as if individuals have no pride in their own performance then any amount of preparation goes out the window. Unfortunately for us it looks like we are getting both at the moment, poor preparation and lack of pride in performance. To concede 24 points at home and all 6 of ur defenders to play 70 minutes bar the one who was sent off beggars belief! Wiped out around the middle we make our only change there after 65 minutes. If Jason Ryan has lads on the panel that he doesn't trust enough to use in a league game then why have them there at all? That is the only reason I can think of for Ryan not making subs today.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:31 am

Strange incident at the end alright. Ref gives us a penalty, a bit of a fight starts, the goalie kicks the ball over the sideline and the ref seems to decide time is up. If the ref is correct, it seems all a team that concedes a penalty near the end of a game needs to do is to delay the other team from taking it and the ref can the game. We couldn't have won the match but in theory 1 goal could be the difference in staying up and going down (not that I think it will in our case)

The match itself was utterly depressing. All the Roscommon forwards had to do when they got the ball was run at our defence and they either got through for an easy score or we fouled them. We just can't seem to stop an opponent legally. On the other side, Roscommon were easily able to bottle up our forwards and take the ball off them. I have to think this is down to poor coaching from the management set-up, we cannot be that much worse than other counties. The other big problem is we can't compete at all at midfield on long kick-outs. When Roscommon copped onto this in the 2nd half and pushed up on our kick-outs, we fell apart.

I know the players have to accept some of the criticism but it's up to the manager to get the best out of the players and this is clearly not happening. Or if it is, we are really in trouble. It's hard to watch performances like that, the season can't end quick enough for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:37 am

Quote :
O Byrne Cup is irrelevant - on crap pitches in the freezing cold against makeshift teams.

We'll just about avoid relegation from Division 2, but it will go close between Us, Roscommon, Westmeath and Cavan. I predict Westmeath and Rossies to go down. Us third from bottom. Galway and Down to be promoted. Meath will just miss out.

Laois will give us our fill of it in Leinster, we may just stumble by them. Dublin will hand it to us.

If we draw teams in any of the 2 top divisions in qualifiers we're toast and the club championship can run on again. Jason Ryan will depart and we'll be left scratching our heads once more.

Leinster : Dublin
Munster : Kerry
Connacht : Galway
Ulster : Armagh

All Ireland : Dublin
Dark Horses : Armagh
Meath & Down to go will in qualifiers.

I posted this in another thread and got absolutely torn apart for being too negative and "all doom and gloom".

The doom is far worse than I predicted. The gloom is still to come.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:38 am

First of all lets give some credit to Roscommon today. I thought they were excellent with a very fast breaking defence, a very strong fielding midfield and forwards who could easily win their own ball and either score or lay off a scoring pass.
We seemed to be miles slower and sadly a lot less talented as footballers. We just cant catch a ball in midfield and seem to have no plan of attack at all.
Once again substitutions were made far to late, apart from Dowling who surely should have been given a bit of time to see could he build on his goal.
Its galling to recall that we should have won our first 2 matches and have given us a chance of staying up as we are probably just about a mid table Div 2 side imo.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:41 am

murof wrote:
First of all lets give some credit to Roscommon today. I thought they were excellent with a very fast breaking defence, a very strong fielding midfield and forwards who could easily win their own ball and either score or lay off a scoring pass.
We seemed to be miles slower and sadly a lot less talented as footballers. We just cant catch a ball in midfield and seem to have no plan of attack at all.
Once again substitutions were made far to late, apart from Dowling who surely should have been given a bit of time to see could he build on his goal.
Its galling to recall that we should have won our first 2 matches and have given us a chance of staying up as we are probably just about a mid table Div 2 side imo.

Based on what exactly?
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:47 am

Based on the fact that we should have beaten Down and Meath, and yes I know we didn't but those wins along with the Cavan one would have given us 6 points which would make us a mid table Div 2 side.
Well done on your prediction, apart from Roscommon getting relegated, what was that based on exactly?
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:02 am

Freddie, I hate the term natural footballer normally but what I mean is a player who generally makes the right decisions, executes under pressure and keeps the head when the heat comes on. How many of those have Kildare had in the last 40 years? If you have a better way to describe that type of player let us know.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:02 am

this is div 2 football in newbridge for god sake! not dublin, kerry, donegal, tyrone, cork or mayo! no matter how good or how bad weve been over the yrs, we always put it up to whoever we played at home. 3 defeats at home is a total disgrace. of course the players have to take a lot of the blame but the buck stops with the manager, and that buck should be stopped right now!! if jason ryan doesnt walk away "right now" then he should be fired! its that simple. roscommon had a bigger support than us there today, and why? because people are fed up watching the crap style of football we are playing at the moment. im worried already about some of the teams we could be playing in div 3 next yr. thats why i want ryan fired immediately so we can get someone who could still save us from the drop with 2 wins. i dont know whos available but there must be someone who can come in and give the players a bit of direction, passion, leadership and fight! ASAP
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:21 am

Freddy Krueger wrote:
Explain to me Crofter what exactly is a natural footballer? Is he born with a football in his hand, Colm Cooper the surrogate father, raised by Peter Canavan & Pat Spillane thanks to marriage equality. Mick O'Dwyer and Mickey Harte his god parents and James O'Donohoe babysitting him at weekends? Is that what makes a natural footballer?

We won a Leinster u21 2 years ago. A minor the same year. We lost the minor final last year and the minor in 2009 after a replay. I do not accept we have any worse "natural footballers" footballers in Kildare than any county that has beaten us so far this year in the League.

The trend has been going downwards ever since Jason Ryan took the reigns. We have been steadily shifting heavy scores whilst scoring less and less up front. We are conceding more and more frees and our discipline is nothing short of shambolic. A mountain of free's including 6 socres. More yellows and reds today again, including one for our captain.

Say this out loud : 24 points at home to Roscommon. 18 Scores from play at home to Roscommon, 12 points conceded in either half, 12 being a target which was one more than McGeeney wanted to concede in the whole game.

Our defending is at its worse than I can every remember under any manager. Our attack is completely toothless and lacks any real urgency or direction.

These kinds of things are prepared on the training ground on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday night. They are drilled into players and at the weekend its implemented. Pride plays no part and if it does it's not worth a fiddlers fuck when you are not prepared correctly as a team correctly prepared and drilled will out perform pride every weekend.

I remember after an abject display to Tyrone up in Dungannon by Kildare under McGeeney, they were locked in the dressing room after the game for an hour. McGeeney read them the riot act both in the dessing room and then to the local media afterwards.

Division 3 is a certainty. It's just not mathematically certain yet but its certain.

Someone get Paul Grimley and Niall Carew on the phone.

I'd really love to believe that part too, Freddie. But you clearly didn't see Roscommon (with some of the the same, er.. natural footballers such as Murtagh) tear that minor team to pieces in Tullamore. Startled earwigs we were to coin a phrase. Same as the u-21 team v Galway. I don't mean to denigrate those teams who gave us all wonderful memories with their Leinster titles but we tend to overplay their ability either. As for the minor team last year, they were outclassed in the Leinster final. Again, no disgrace, but not a team of winners. I think you and I have similar views on Ryan, but it's not all a management issue. Do I think we'd stay in Div 2 under a different manager? Yes. Do I think we have as good a team as Roscommon at the moment? No.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:37 am

A couple of hours to digest that and my eyes are still bleeding. Shambolic would be kind.

I'm not going to go over the game because one viewing was enough.

Ryan needs to go whether by his own hand or by the County Board. We are now going to Div 3 that's after being relegated last year. Two relegations in a row. No point waiting for the summer.
I was astounded during the game that Ryan was on the touch line then when the shit hit the fan in the second half he decided to head to the stand. In all that is holy what kind of message was he was sending out I don't know.

Listening to KFM and hearing people talk walking out of the game, there is a lot of very angry supporters directing that anger equally at both Ryan and the county board. The appointment has been a disaster from the very start.

Ogie ( that "usual three" you piped up with is I would expect quite a few more tonight) or a couple of the usual apologists will again try to deflect the blame or tell us to accept our place but most people can now see what I seen last year that Ryan is a spoofer, a word I used early last march. It's taken two consecutive relegations to prove I was right.

I used the phrase you reap what you sow a lot last year as I knew the consequences of getting rid if McGeeney but we are well and truly harvesting what we sowed. U hope the County Board are happy as they have effectively Killed the senior team for the foreseeable future.
Well done to you all, I bet you're proud.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:59 am

Crofter Do I think we have as good a players at our disposal as Roscommon, absolutely no doubt in my mind that we do. I think we have a bigger pool of better players.

Same can be said for Westmeath, Meath, Down and Cavan. We have as good and in my opinion better players than those counties at our disposal. We're not talking about Kerry, Cork or Dublin here Crofter. Niall Kelly is as gifted a footballer for his age in the country. Paul Cribben and Dan Flynn both were pro AFL players. They can't be too shabby either. Eoghan Doyle and Fergal Conway are excellent footballers. Emmet Bolton is one of the best wing backs in the country. Paidi O Neill was on the Compromise rules team, he can't be a junior B player can he?
All star Peter Kelly? Darroch Mulhall? Tomas O Connor was feared at 14 under McGeeney.

These lads dont become bad footballers Overnight. They can however be picked in a team surrounded by players that shouldn't be there. They can be coached poorly to play a system that has no clarity and is not fit for purpose. They can be given a fitness regime that doesn't match the system they are trying to play and lack the fitness sharpness and conditioning to carry out the system.

They can be told to forget about lifting weights at the expense of upper body strength which is essential for tackling and defending .

These can all leave a person to believe when a player looks rudderless and lost that he lacks bottle or passion for the fight. I'd have plenty of passion and fight to beat Paddy Barnes or Kenny Egan for an Olympic medal. but I'm not trained to the level they are so therefore would fall miserably flat.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:09 am

I'd love to agree with you Krueger but I can only go on the evidence of my own eyes. Kelly is the closest we have to a proper forward - I would agree on that one - although I'm not sure he's better than any of the Roscommon full forward line. I think you are blinkered in relation to some of the others and I don't want to get into denigrating individuals tonight as it's too easy after that shambles today. But you lose a lot of credibility when you bring one player into it who supposedly was feared under the previous regime. The big teams had his measure pretty much every time. White-tinted glasses I'm afraid. I'm not sure why we are arguing though as we both basically want the same thing, a change of management to give us the best chance of seeing those players maximise their potential, however big that might be...
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:26 am

The big teams Crofter had his measure But we for the most part competed and he was feared despite what you may say.The small teams have our collective measure now and are beating us quite easily It must be said.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:44 am

I don't disagree - we clearly have gone backwards - but there's also been quite a turnaround in players and some of the older experienced ones have lost half a yard or more. For me Tomas is no more or no less effective than he was under the previous regime so I wouldn't be focusing my attention there.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:20 am

just curious - what did Ryan have to say in his post match interview with kfm?
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:26 am

Not fair to simply compare McGeeney's best team to the one we saw today. His team had a midfield of Earley and Flynn, defenders like Foley, McGrillen, O'Flaherty and Kelly and forwards like Doyle and Kavanagh, none of whom were available today.
Add in the fact that some of his better players like Callaghan and O'Neill are in decline and its easy to see how we have faded so much.
This time 2 years ago Meath, Monaghan and Roscommon were in Div 3 with the latter having to wait another year for promotion. All 3 are playing well now and on the up.
Claiming that we have better players than teams that beat us is just silly. Maybe we just have to be patient and accept that the good times are gone and believe we can come good again.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Roscommon   Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:27 am

just curious - what did Ryan have to say in his post match interview with kfm?
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