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 Moving Forward...

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Flamingo
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PostSubject: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:25 am

So while we are all sick to death of giving out can we please come up with some constructive ideas as to how we can get Kildare in ruder health?

I think we should operate a self-imposed ban on speaking about the former manager and the current set-up. I think enough of this forum is taken up by giving out so let's see what to do.

First up I think the players need to go directly to the county board and make the push on Ryan. If they see this as a lack of loyalty well so be it. From what I hear they are not playing for him on the field so it might not really be there in the first place.

Immediately a stop-gap could be approached. As I said previously you don't need a man with pedigree or huge experience just someone to provide a bounce in the camp. I know we are loathe to compare ourselves to soccer but you see it all the time with the likes of Sherwood at Villa and Pulis at WBA. The new man nearly always gives a lift but he always comes from outside.
This is an open ticket from the likes of Lacey to Rainbow or JD. Just someone who would answer the county call and be happy to step away at the end of the year. Left field might be Paul Earley...
Then as soon as they are in place immediately set up a panel to get their man. Have a lad like Flanno on it who is retired but still very close to the group and would know what makes them tick. Throw in JD on the panel for good measure (although the man has time constraints).
As soon as the man is identified close the deal and as soon as we are out of the championship he would get to the club games and have Winter fitness plans in place.

Other option would be to just and get McStay or someone right now. I think he would still be on.

Further down the line let lads play with their clubs more instead of poxy 20 20 20 challenge games. We all must see a county manager with a good relationship with their clubs is hardly any harm. Plus I always point to Kilkenny...when did Cody wrap his lads in cotton wool...also for the life of me I can't think of any county man getting injured playing for their club in recent years.

In terms of our general overall running there also should be a commercial activity manager or something similar. The population we have in this county and we are off to Croker with a begging bowl.
The issue too is that there is such a negative vibe in the county now it's harder to 'sell yourself' to potential corporate partners.

County Boards are strange things in that we all think we could do better but just at the moment we just seem to be lurching from one thing to another and we still have the shittiest county grounds around...

Feel free to add in once it's constructive. If the nuclear option wasn't on well then in the background feelers should be put out to the likes of McStay.
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kickingking
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:48 am

Aside from our shortcomings at adult level, I believe there badly needs to be a long term stretegy put in place to develop and grow Kildare GAA.

Short term thinking has held us back for long enough. The current financial situation is a symptom of this. That black hole in our balance sheet didn't appear there overnight. Why didn't anyone shout stop? A bit like the country's economy, no one in a position of power seemed to realise that we were spending way more than what we were bringing in, or they ignored it if they did.

The county board seem to be trying to do the right thing as far as the finances are concerned. We simply have to rein back although that is unfortunately going to have some negative impact on our county teams' performances. That becomes a vicious circle then when attendances drop.

Where we are now is a legacy of years of financial recklessness. Changing the current senior management may bring about a short term spike but it will be hard to maintain if the next man is working off a shoestring budget. You can be guaranteed that Fitzmaurice and Cody and their panels don't want for anything.

We have to think long term. For all our problems we still have huge advantages over the majority of counties. The economic recovery will benefit our county moreso than others. Big employers are looking at Kildare as a place to locate their businesses and the rise in Dublin property prices will see more people pushed out to the suburbs and the commuter belt.

The Kildare seniors of 20 years time could be part of these families. We can talk about population all we want but it has to be acted upon. I read that Roscommon only have a population of 60,000 (only 2 & 1/2 times the number of Naas) but how many kids in Roscommon dream of growing up and playing for the county team. I would guess the proportion is a lot greater than it is in Kildare. We have a lot of kids in this county who are born to parents who are not native Kildare people. How can we win their hearts and minds?

A successful county team is one way. Everyone wants to be part of something successful. We can all remember back to 1998 and 2000 when there were many non native Kildare residents who latched onto the bandwagon. A lot of our current senior players were probably in primary school back then and were no doubt influenced by their friends going to Kildare matches, wearing the jersey, seeing Dermot Earley and Johnny Doyle in the papers and on the telly etc.

We need to target the schools just like the Dubs did. That's going to be hard without their financial clout but it's not impossible. Appoint a planning committee with members drawn from the Kildare GAA community - approach people like Pat Mangan, Jack Wall, Syl Merrins, Andrew O'Sullivan, Noel Mooney, Declan O'Toole, Bryan Murphy, David Murphy, Tadhg Fennin, Joe Osborne, Charlie McCreevy and Padraig McManus. Get them to draw up a long term strategy, get it costed, and present it to Croke Park, the Leinster Council and the Sports Council. If they're not willing to back it and part fund new coaches then get innovative. See if big firms like Intel, HP and Kerry are willing to come on board as part of their local community and school partnership schemes. Put on much more frequent and comprehensive coaching seminars for local school teachers. See if Kildare VEC and the Department of Education would be willing to accept such seminars as part of school teachers' 33 Croke Park hours. Develop schemes (or rental schemes) to subsidise gear and equipment for schools through their local clubs. Provide each school in the county with free or reduced price tickets to Kildare matches. Invite school teams to Hawkfield to train and take sessions with county players/coaches etc.

Now the majority of kids will probably never make it senior club football never mind senior county but a long term strategy targeting the schools will help to increase club membership around Kildare. The more club members you have the greater income clubs will receive from membership subs and the more attractive they are to potential sponsors. More underage players spreads the talent net wider. More club teams and more competitive club football should lead to a rise in standards.

We have serious untapped potential as a county but it will continue to be untapped until we start putting proper plans in place for the future. We have some good people involved in Kildare GAA and they do great work but I can't help but feeling there is a serious lack of vision and ambition within our organisation at times.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:59 am

Posted this on another thread a while back but fits premise here. As a starting point, we can assume summer will be very short to the point I'd nearly rather lose early to avoid Dublin, we'll be looking for a manager when that short summer is over and very possibly/likely we'll be getting ready for Division 3. That's where Kildare GAA is at and for all the short-term thinking, it's not going to get better without long-term planning. Pat Gilroy and James Horan ran their teams like a business by thinking ahead in segments and delegating in every area, Jim McGuinness incrementally changed Donegal to the point of champions and our greatest rivals have nailed if off the pitch as well and are a juggernaut. About time Kildare did likewise and if this doesn't happen we may not win a Leinster again in our lifetimes. Really believe that.

Why is there no football review and three-year, five-year and 10-year plan put together? This is the only way we can rise up to a consistently high level now, otherwise we are waiting on a few things to come together because of luck. This should be done in several areas. Firstly in terms of player production, I've highlighted the Belgian soccer model before and how with the help of universities they came up with a template of how to produce the best players. It involves certain factors for each age group and their clubs rowing together until under-18 for the good of their senior teams and the Belgian senior team. Kildare needs to do this with every club in the country, sit down, thrash it out, come up with plan and everyone wins.

Secondly there needs to be a plan on managers. Look at Dublin and how they bring guys through their underage teams and onto senior for a stint and then those managers go back and contribute more. Kildare need a plan like this that brings consistency, familiarity and an ideology.

Thirdly there needs to be a plan put together on finance. Enough of this bucket at the gate sh*te. It needs serious people in the county to be brought onto a think-tank, conversations with major business people in the county and a self-funding full-time role. This should also incorporate cash for St Conleth's Park upgrade and best use of Hawkfield (overlapping there with player development).

There's also a need for clubs to buy into this so we don't have future meltdowns when things get tough and a plan for the county board to get their act together and all to agree to stick to the findings of studies and progress based on that. It's a lot of work but there are a lot of willing people (I know I tried to help and was told they knew best essentially in one area and that attitude of political ego has to stop). It's time consuming and needs unity but it's not rocket science. Until then, we have been, are and will remain to be a nothing county that talks about being great tradition when we're one of the worst counties in Ireland for GAA and being a sleeping giant when we're more like a comatosed dwarf.

Next step, how to get this through to country board because if they don't realise they clearly don't know best as we are a mess in all areas right now and the Conleth's jacks perfectly sum up the state of things, we'll remain in the dark ages?
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:37 am

Fair comments, TK. Hard to argue with much of that. Not sure Belgium have done much with all these great young players mind you, although they certainly are doing something right in producing so many lately.

Leadership starts at the top and the new man at the helm needs to show these qualities now. He's been so low profile so far it's hard to see it coming though.

Regarding the senior team, I'd be happy over the next three weeks with someone who can instruct a team how to defend come on board and for him to figure out if we are playing our best 6 defenders at the moment. I said Murphy on a temporary basis earlier but I'm not sure his teams have been particularly strong defensively either. Glen Ryan certainly knew how to defend in his day. My confidence in our defenders has been severely rocked this season. Even those I thought could man-mark (Lyons in particular) and someone like Conway who seemed to be the genuine article at 6, both of these seem to have gone severely backwards. We've gone from a so-called blanket for a game or so earlier in the campaign to totally isolating the full back line against an inside line as dangerous as Roscommon's. And whoever had the bright idea of plonking Bolton back into the full back line ( Louth 2010 revisited) needs their head examined. J.Ryan presumably.



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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:18 am

some really good posts and ideas there lads, this is stuff that should be happening as a matter of course but obviously isn't. We have a new Co Chairman, Vice Chairman and Co Treasurer, they need to show leadership
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:38 am

I think if we did come up with a credible, costed, long-term plan that Croke Park would help us. It's in nobody's interest to have Dublin running away with Leinster every year. Drawing up a committee with some of people kickingking has suggested seems a sensible way to go. I can't say I am confident it will happen though.

I agree that targetting the schools is very important. As a model to follow, we could do worse than look at how Roscommon go about things. From a much smaller pick than us, they consistently produce skilful, well-coached players and are reaping the rewards now. I know our development squads have improved but it seems we produce players who are excellent athletes rather than footballers.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:51 am

Tommy, Would it be possible for you to post the email you sent the county board on here re the Belgium set up?
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Lillydreams
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:08 am

Not fully sure on Kerry's finances last year but I know that after funding both minors and seniors for the whole championship and paying for the senior team to go on a holiday they had money to spare.
Obviously their main sponsor was Kerry group, must of pumped a lot of money in, they should definitely be targeted by the county board and quickly!
We need our new chairman to run things differently to the last one! Can he do it??? I hope so
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Flamingo
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:11 am

That's something I failed to raise JohnnyC seeing as it's not good for the GAA to have the Dubs stroll through a province every year. There is support needed and I'm sure they are not blind to the fact that Heaslip, McFadden and Marty Moore are role models for plenty of kids in the county.
At the same time unless the GAA have a clear proposal in front of them why would they dream of throwing money at a county who don't seem to have their affairs in order?!
The schools are a good way to ensure players develop and the Dub hurlers certainly raised their levels when they had support. And to be fair our schools are decent as it is. It's also a good way to identify any late bloomers who are not already in the development squads.
From Edenderry alone we got Keith and Paul Cribbin, Eoghan O'Flaherty, Cathal McNally and Dan Flynn...the latter two weren't heralded from a young age. Plus Hurley but he isn't around.
And as I said the schools aren't in bad nick (thanks to great work inside) but an extra but of support could do a lot of good.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:13 am

Lillydreams wrote:
Not fully sure on Kerry's finances last year but I know that after funding both minors and seniors for the whole championship and paying for the senior team to go on a holiday they had money to spare.
Obviously their main sponsor was Kerry group, must of pumped a lot of money in, they should definitely be targeted by the county board and quickly!
We need our new chairman to run things differently to the last one! Can he do it??? I hope so
kerry made 131k profit last year, keery group and gaa payed for hoilday
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:23 am

Lillydreams wrote:
Not fully sure on Kerry's finances last year but I know that after funding both minors and seniors for the whole championship and paying for the senior team to go on a holiday they had money to spare.
Obviously their main sponsor was Kerry group, must of pumped a lot of money in, they should definitely be targeted by the county board and quickly!
We need our new chairman to run things differently to the last one! Can he do it??? I hope so

Bomber Liston, Mikey Sheey and Ogie Moran went on a fundraising trip to the US and raised over €150k among the Kerry diaspora for their planned centre of excellence.

One of the few areas where other counties have an advantage over us is the presence of a wealthy diaspora overseas. McGuinness's Donegal was bankrolled by expats. Roscommon are sponsored by a wealthy London expat who allows them to advertise their supporters club on their jersey. There are huge Mayo and Kerry GAA communities in London and in America. John Murphy of the Murphy construction empire in England was a huge supporter of Kerry GAA.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:41 am

What about Osborne could we ask him for help! Brought us mick o'dwyer
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:43 am

kickingking wrote:
Lillydreams wrote:
Not fully sure on Kerry's finances last year but I know that after funding both minors and seniors for the whole championship and paying for the senior team to go on a holiday they had money to spare.
Obviously their main sponsor was Kerry group, must of pumped a lot of money in, they should definitely be targeted by the county board and quickly!
We need our new chairman to run things differently to the last one! Can he do it??? I hope so

Bomber Liston, Mikey Sheey and Ogie Moran went on a fundraising trip to the US and raised over €150k among the Kerry diaspora for their planned centre of excellence.

One of the few areas where other counties have an advantage over us is the presence of a wealthy diaspora overseas. McGuinness's Donegal was bankrolled by expats. Roscommon are sponsored by a wealthy London expat who allows them to advertise their supporters club on their jersey. There are huge Mayo and Kerry GAA communities in London and in America. John Murphy of the Murphy construction empire in England was a huge supporter of Kerry GAA.

I'll get laying bricks here in the morning!
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:46 am

Excuse my ignorance but whats so special about the Belgium model? From my recollection they have won sweet FA, Tommy you talk about about winning mentality & set-up but you propose a third tier achieving model as the solution??
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:53 am

Lillydreams wrote:
What about Osborne could we ask him for help! Brought us mick o'dwyer

Michael Osborne sadly died ten years ago. He had two sons. Joe Osborne is the managing director of Sheikh Mohammed's Kildangan Stud who supported the development of More O'Farrell Park for Kildangan GAA. John Osborne was the CEO at the Irish National Stud and was a board member of Fáilte County Kildare.


TommyKeegan wrote:
kickingking wrote:
Lillydreams wrote:
Not fully sure on Kerry's finances last year but I know that after funding both minors and seniors for the whole championship and paying for the senior team to go on a holiday they had money to spare.
Obviously their main sponsor was Kerry group, must of pumped a lot of money in, they should definitely be targeted by the county board and quickly!
We need our new chairman to run things differently to the last one! Can he do it??? I hope so

Bomber Liston, Mikey Sheey and Ogie Moran went on a fundraising trip to the US and raised over €150k among the Kerry diaspora for their planned centre of excellence.

One of the few areas where other counties have an advantage over us is the presence of a wealthy diaspora overseas. McGuinness's Donegal was bankrolled by expats. Roscommon are sponsored by a wealthy London expat who allows them to advertise their supporters club on their jersey. There are huge Mayo and Kerry GAA communities in London and in America. John Murphy of the Murphy construction empire in England was a huge supporter of Kerry GAA.

I'll get laying bricks here in the morning!

Good man TK!
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:59 am

Stonecold wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but whats so special about the Belgium model? From my recollection they have won sweet FA, Tommy you talk about about winning mentality & set-up but you propose a third tier achieving model as the solution??

Few reasons I mentioned Belgium. Population-wise, small compared to competitors; resource-wise tiny compared to them; just over a decade ago they were an utter shambles and laughing stock; just over a decade ago they were stuck living on past glories with no plan to take them forward, rather they relied on luck every other era; and just over a decade ago they had enough and through revolutionary planning and joint-up thinking that everyone bought into, produced a remarkable stream of talent that won't be stopping and that all buys into a similar philosophy that was scientifically proven to maximise potential, and became World Cup quarter-finalists.

In soccer, that involved getting into the top four per cent of teams essentially - equivalent to Kerry in this year's All Ireland given number of sides we have competiting. So third-tier and irrelavent I think not. A similar, awful starting point, mass frustration, radical thinking and an unreal turn around. What we need here.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:38 pm

Belgians?..sure what would they know..they put mayonnaise on their chips!
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:47 pm

KKK, Joe Osbourne is Managing Director of Kildangan Stud and John Osbourne is CEO of the Irish National Stud.. I assume they are Brothers ??. worth a phone Call ? Idea
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:26 am

SeamusMurphy wrote:
KKK, Joe Osbourne is Managing Director of Kildangan Stud and John Osbourne is CEO of the Irish National Stud.. I assume they are Brothers ??.  worth a phone Call ? Idea

Correct. I have no idea whether they are as passionate about Kildare GAA as their late father but it would do no harm to invite them to join a planning committee. The worst that can happen is they say no and it's a wasted phone call.

We need ideas from successful people like that who have extensive contacts and are experienced planners. Pool their experience with people who are at the coalface of Kildare GAA like some of the names I have mentioned above and task them with formulating a strategic plan for the development of Kildare GAA over the next twenty years.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:07 pm

Just a thought.. If we slip into Div 3, this is going to have a massive effect on the County, and not just in Football terms.. Financially going from Div 1, with Home Matches attracting 7 or 8 Thousand, and now looking at Div 3, playing at Home to Clare wont be very attractive.

Question.. Where does the Money go from a Home Match ?. Say last Year v Mayo, with 7 Thousand at it, at 15 euro a Head, 100k euro ?.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:39 am



All National League gate money goes into Central Council Pot. Think a seperate Pot for each Div.

Most is divided out according to results/final placings. Not much to divide in Div 2, 3 0r 4 ( where we are),,,,,,,,,,,,

Some goes to fund normal Central Council activity, like grants to clubs& counties, loans to counties, paying the coaches/developement officers etc
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:01 am

Yeah but the very essence if being a fan is the innate optimism that things might just turn... I'd rather retain some of that Freddie while respecting your right to remain a miserable barsteward. No doubt you'll be proven right though.. I wouldn't bother attending.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving Forward...   Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:21 am

Oops wrong thread - sorry. Freddie I only meant to call you a miserable you-know-what once !
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