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 Kildare v Laois

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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:59 am

Pointless repeating who was right and who was wrong about the present and past manager. We are all Kildare supporters and all rejoiced on saturday at a good performance in the 2nd half.
Find it annoying that questioning whether a player still has enough to offer to warrant a starting place is classed as "slagging off or abuse. "
Delighted that Leper did well as he has always been a favourite of mine but the hard work for the goal was done by Smith. Has he and others like Chalky and Fogarty the pace needed to compete with Dublin?
I think its inevitable that we will concede a high score as we dont really know how to defend against pacy players and Dublin have lots of them. Our best hope is to try to run up a big score ourselves and that means scoring at least 2 goals. Had we dont that the first day against Laois there wouldn't have been a 2nd day needed.
Donegal proved last year that the best way to unsettle Dublin is to score goals. Have we the players in the squad to do that and what is the story with Mulhall? Seems to have dropped down the pecking order considerably.
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:39 am

Westside wrote:
lilywhites on tour wrote:
I think Dermot Earley hit the nail on the head the other night on the Sunday Game. He said too defensive is problematic likewise go man for man "we will be destroyed". He said the balance between the two is the way to go and more specifically that second half of football we played on Saturday.

I feel our full back line is still suspect. Yes the threat of Kingston and Co was removed but they cut us open on numerous occasions. This and midfield. Laois lorded it there and this will not be acceptable in two weeks time. We saw the potential we can achieve in playing direct ball into the forwards as opposed to recycling the ball around in a circle and getting nowhere, characteristic of almost every game involving kildare this season. A mammoth improvement is needed for us in all sectors of the field to be able to match Dublin - at least give them a competitive game.

Who in the full back line is suspect? Was it not the runners coming through that caused the damage like Donoher, O'Carroll and O'Loughlin?

I don't see how too defensive is problematic because "too defensive" - what I'd propose, in so much as I don't think it's actually possible to be too defensive when you're facing down the barrel - but "too defensive" wouldn't be man for man. Man for man isn't defensive at all.

And agreed, every full back line in the modern game will be done one-on-one if there is a steady flow. So I'm for choking the life out of the Dublin attack, denying oxygen in terms of space to run into and to send an outlet ball. The thing is not to concede crap frees to the runners. Points are better than goals but discipline with 12 or 13 behind the ball has been proven to frustrate Dublin. It sure works better than going man-for-man.

Anyone that would be worried about negative press if you had avoided a pasting after that would want to have a lie down. Of course if you still get the pasting, duck for cover!
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:42 am

murof wrote:
Pointless repeating who was right and who was wrong about the present and past manager. We are all Kildare supporters and all rejoiced on saturday at a good performance in the 2nd half.
Find it annoying that questioning whether a player still has enough to offer to warrant a starting place is classed as "slagging off or abuse. "
Delighted that Leper did well as he has always been a favourite of mine but the hard work for the goal was done by Smith. Has he and others like Chalky and Fogarty the pace needed to compete with Dublin?
I think its inevitable that we will concede a high score as we dont really know how to defend against pacy players and Dublin have lots of them. Our best hope is to try to run up a big score ourselves and that means scoring at least 2 goals. Had we dont that the first day against Laois there wouldn't have been a 2nd day needed.
Donegal proved last year that the best way to unsettle Dublin is to score goals. Have we the players in the squad to do that and what is the story with Mulhall? Seems to have dropped down the pecking order considerably.

Great point on Smithy - and in general, some of his running was pretty selfless in opening spaces.

I would agree on not being able to comment on whether a player should be on or not. I think there's too much sensitivity on that. It's the personal stuff ('clown', 'passenger', 'going through the motions' (IMAGINE SAYING THAT ABOUT PAIDI O'NEILL?!!!) that is wrong.

There's no question, six subs on the last day, Darroch needs two or three injuries now to get game time.
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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:45 am

Yep, agree with everything Ogie says. Dublin were very commiseratory and patronising after the last three times we played them - I'd be much happier if they hated us again after this match.
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teedee
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:19 am

without naming players, i feel we need more pace in the middle third of the field against dublin. dublin will destroy us if we start with the same 15 again. laois would have done it in the 1st half had they taken the 2 goal chances. we all know it was the terrible mistake by the laois keeper that gave us the launch pad for what followed. add the pace and guile of doyle hyland moolick and kelly and im sure we can match the dubs in most positions. croke park is the one pitch that players without pace will be found out bigtime. especially as dublin thrive on speed and movement. ryan will have to make the big calls or else it could be a demolition job.we have the players to rattle them,IF WE PLAY THEM.
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:17 pm

SeamusMurphy wrote:
While some are still learning their trade at Senior level, the majority are very seasoned and experienced Players.

I don't think that's true. Off the top of my head none of the following players would have played more than 10 championship games: Mark Donnellan, Ciaran Fitzpatrick, Mick O'Grady, Kevin Murnaghan, Fergal Conway, Eoin Doyle, Paul Cribbin, Cathal McNally and Padraig Fogarty.

That's more than half the likely starting 15 against Dublin.
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Bad News Baba
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:05 pm

Days of quick fixes over in Kildare - it's time to reward Ryan's efforts

Gil Gilroy

Defeat now with a short turnaround and the entire season on the line seems like a hefty price to pay for the losers. Kildare and Laois were so finely balanced the first day that it's almost impossible to believe the turn-around in the replay six days later.
Sure the Galway-Dublin hurling games were fairly similar in result but that replay was over inside 15 minutes when Galway already had a double-digit lead up.
Laois were ahead at half-time the second day having missed a penalty and a one-on-one. Kildare could have been buried. Should have been.
That they weren't is credit both to the young team and their excellent young manager. Jason Ryan was on a hiding to nothing coming into the job and despite successive relegations he has surely done enough to warrant a long-term Kildare deal. The integration of so many young players into the team so quickly clearly resulted in mixed league results but it also has allowed the team make big leaps collectively. Everyone was learning, all the time.
There is also, now, genuine strength in depth. When Kildare named their team for the replay we arched our eyebrows and declined to believe it. We were wrong and the team named started.
If needed Ryan had cavalry to come. As it turned out, they weren't required and training surely goes up a notch with proper subs available and pushing for spots.
Whenever Dublin beat Kildare people will question the progress made - that's foolish but it's life. Some will demand a quality run through the qualifiers where a few decent teams lie in wait.
The evidence of the drawn game and the replay with Laois suggests the team absorbed how to stay in games when they weren't playing well, precisely their downfall in the league. In the end counties want progress and Ryan and his team are delivering.

I thought Gilroy was a Kildare man. Has Ryan some dodgy photos of certain journalists in compromising positions because you could count the number of people that want Ryan to stay after this year on one hand.
Wanting a long term deal for him, the only people that want a long term deal for Ryan are our rivals or other counties who fear they might have him in their camp next year.

It makes you think how many games these lads go to before they write such a piece.

Stinker of an article.
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:09 pm

I wonder if you attend any games Baba. I doubt you attend many club games because if you did you would realise the standard is relatively low at the minute. Also, which players would you have in the panel that are not currently there?
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Bad News Baba
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:20 pm

Not sure why that's relevant, but just for you I haven't missed a game all year, not that you care or I care what you think for one split second.

Exactly where did I say there should be other players that should be in.

So you are the opinion Ryan should be given a long term deal. I have one of those five people anyway for the Ryan bus.
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:28 pm

The negativity is so draining. Kildare are about 12th-16th in the country at present. If we had Sean Boylan, Kevin Hefernan and Jim McGuinness over the team, it would make very little difference. We beat a team well on saturday who are about same level as us so give the manager a break. And dont be aghast when we take a pasting off Dublin . Im sure you are teeing urself up for it.
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:30 pm

You probably don't care what I think either Baba but for what it's worth I think a couple of points in that article are worthwhile. We were all very fearful we'd lose to Laois and no matter what way you explain it, the fact remains that we hammered them. We also have four of our best young players not playing for us and beating a team around our level with so many players gone in the last few years is a decent achievement.

However talk of a long-term deal for Ryan is too much. I might be on for him staying if we reach the All-Ireland quarter-finals through the qualifiers or lose narrowly to a very good team in the last 12. If we get hammered by Dublin and lose early in the qualifiers then you'd have to say that this season wasn't good enough - one championship win wouldn't make up for relegation and a bad championship loss.

Either way it probably depends on who's available. If Cian O'Neill was up for it it would be hard to resist appointing him regardless of how we do for the rest of the season. If we put the feelers out and don't get interest from a clearly better coach I'd think twice about change for the sake of change - again depending on how the rest of the summer goes.
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Bad News Baba
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:30 am

I wouldn't disagree too much there with you.
You have to question him if we ship a heavy defeat to Dublin. It's not Ryan's first game against them and he has lost the previous ones in equally horrible ways. A win against Laois should not in any way be the standard we set ourselves and if a win against them is what allows a manager to get a long term deal then we are a lost cause.
The only person that can save Ryan is himself. He needs to show something that he has not shown in the last two years in the next two weeks. Maybe he can, I hope he does as much as I dislike him as a manger.
We'll have to wait and see.
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:12 am

The result this afternoon takes some of the gloss of Kildare's win last week.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:13 am

Just for perspective, Laois blew a 1-7 to 0-1 and 1-11 to 0-6 (and Munnelly had a penalty at this stage which he missed) lead to lose at home to Antrim by two.
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kelf
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:18 am


Tom Shiel deserted for Boston earlier in the week, so typical of Laois dedication,,,,,,
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:40 am

kelf wrote:

Tom Shiel deserted for Boston earlier in the week, so typical of Laois dedication,,,,,,

I happen to know Tom's relations, he had arranged that trip over a year ago and management knew about it. He deferred it for a few weeks at a big cost to himself so I suppose there is a bit of dedication there. We have lads who did a runner this year too so its like the pot calling the kettle black.....

We should start thinking about how we beat a team who seem to give up after they go behind and realise that beating teams does not make us a good team.  Don't forget there was nothing between us for three halves of two games and should have been beaten in the first game but for an awful miss by the younger Kingston lad. We are still in serious trouble and when Dublin give us a hammering we will be in the same boat as Laois and other second class teams that some posters here seem to glorify in slagging.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:50 am

Borderline wrote:
kelf wrote:

Tom Shiel deserted for Boston earlier in the week, so typical of Laois dedication,,,,,,

I happen to know Tom's relations, he had arranged that trip over a year ago and management knew about it. He deferred it for a few weeks at a big cost to himself so I suppose there is a bit of dedication there. We have lads who did a runner this year too so its like the pot calling the kettle black.....

We should start thinking about how we beat a team who seem to give up after they go behind and realise that beating teams does not make us a good team.  Don't forget there was nothing between us for three halves of two games and should have been beaten in the first game but for an awful miss by the younger Kingston lad. We are still in serious trouble and when Dublin give us a hammering we will be in the same boat as Laois and other second class teams that some posters here seem to glorify in slagging.

Meoooooooooow!

Granted, it all does put our win into perspective, not that it should have been needed. After all, Laois have been a mess for years. They blew the egos of their long-ago underage successes so big with back slapping and pints at 18 that they went pop fairly quick, they have no discipline, their top players run for Dublin clubs at the first sight of envelopes and put those clubs above county manager instructions, long before this year their top players have run abroad at the first sign of a defeat, they've no structures in place, they are whipping boys below senior, and all the while they have blamed any and every manager that has come across them to the point Micko told me it was the one county he was glad to get away from as it was toxic, septic, back-stabbing and nasty. Little wonder a true warrior like Cahir Healy went hurling only while Portlaoise at times tend to steer clear (granted their size and success another problem).

I feel bad for their supporters, because they are going nowhere and blame the manager again after this, never looking inward at their own attitude and mess. Last week that should have been in the minds of Kildare supporters before anyone got hopeful about Dublin, but for anyone who thought otherwise, Antrim just showed us in and around the levels we are operating at and struggling with. So nothing has changed, we are really poor, need massive off-field reform, need on-field reform and given that it was great to beat our rivals. But I'm telling you, 20-plus points to Dublin.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:35 pm

Borderline wrote:
kelf wrote:

Tom Shiel deserted for Boston earlier in the week, so typical of Laois dedication,,,,,,

I happen to know Tom's relations, he had arranged that trip over a year ago and management knew about it. He deferred it for a few weeks at a big cost to himself so I suppose there is a bit of dedication there. We have lads who did a runner this year too so its like the pot calling the kettle black.....

We should start thinking about how we beat a team who seem to give up after they go behind and realise that beating teams does not make us a good team.  Don't forget there was nothing between us for three halves of two games and should have been beaten in the first game but for an awful miss by the younger Kingston lad. We are still in serious trouble and when Dublin give us a hammering we will be in the same boat as Laois and other second class teams that some posters here seem to glorify in slagging.

Well that turns the whole concept of sport on its head somewhat ! But I kindof know what you mean. TommyK has outlined the true nature of Laois football for the last 20 years. True tests lie ahead. We might get over Offaly/Longford/Cavan/Antrim although I don't think it will necessarily be much easier than the Laois games. But after that it gets serious again and let's see where we are then..
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:06 am

Well presuming we don't beat Dublin there are no excuses as we've landed on a pillow in the draw.

In our side, if results go as expected, Cavan, Offaly, Antrim and Longford will play Clare, Fermanagh, Kildare and Roscommon. And the four winners play each other for right to play two of the provincial losers. In other half, Louth, Tyrone, Down and Armagh will play Tipperary, Galway, Derry and Westmeath/Meath and same situation thereafter. Day and night.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:26 am

Tomas O'Flatharta jumps ship.... Well the writing was on the wall after back to back collapse's....

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/laois-boss-tomas-o-flatharta-steps-down-after-shock-antrim-defeat-31325830.html
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:48 am

glen ryan is top of wanted list for laois job
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:32 am

fone wrote:
glen ryan  is top of wanted  list for laois job

Let them at it. Game has moved on, and I say that with the man as my hero. McGeeney was a radical and brilliant step into the modern game, time for another one be it Cian O'Neill or Tony McEntee.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:24 pm

TommyKeegan wrote:
fone wrote:
glen ryan  is top of wanted  list for laois job

Let them at it. Game has moved on, and I say that with the man as my hero. McGeeney was a radical and brilliant step into the modern game, time for another one be it Cian O'Neill or Tony McEntee.

Pat Spillane dosent think much of Geezer as a Coach.. Having watched His disapointing effort versus Donegal.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:36 am

SeamusMurphy wrote:
TommyKeegan wrote:
fone wrote:
glen ryan  is top of wanted  list for laois job

Let them at it. Game has moved on, and I say that with the man as my hero. McGeeney was a radical and brilliant step into the modern game, time for another one be it Cian O'Neill or Tony McEntee.

Pat Spillane dosent think much of Geezer as a Coach.. Having watched His disapointing effort versus Donegal.

Greatest proof ever of a fella looking for something to back his opinion (like the great article/shite article stuff that appears hear from Breheny/McGee etc, depending on whether they are complimenting or criticising Kildare).

Because Pat Spillane is cutting edge!! Sure he thought Westmeath/Meath was the greatest thing ever and that Dublin are Luke Skywalker defending the realm or whatever it is against Darth Vader. I thoroughly enjoyed WM/M but the defensive play was absolutely brutal and there was an example every minute almost of how not to defend. That was just one-on-one stuff, not to mind the absence of any structure.

No allowance for Armagh playing their first game since the Division 3 final and Donegal (many people's favourites for the All-Ireland and in most's top 3) having had an Ulster championship game already, beating Tyrone. McGeeney has gotten it wrong tactically but the evidence is fairly conclusive about his ability to improve players and teams.
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