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 Kildare v Laois

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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:55 am

I know people will ridicule my Div 1 claim, but what can I say, prophets are never recognised in their own land etc etc...
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:09 am

Gaa1928 wrote:


We will never move forward if you keep looking back, build a bridge and get over it.   Clubs were entitled to vote whatever way they wished on that night ( its called 'free speech' ). N.B. I am not a supporter of Jason Ryan however I am sure that he is trying his best as all managers I have known have done.  I also think that the players who have walked/going travelling etc have done the panel in general an injustice at a time when they were most needed.

I believe you are mixing up "free speech" with "democracy". But now that you mention "free speech" I would really have liked to have heard some of the clubs reasons as to why they voted the way they did and obviously Martin Whyte also. His reasons to me would be very intriguing particularly after (allegedly) telling McGeeney he'd back him and voted against the then Chairman's own recommendations.

No clubs didn't have to give a reason. The reason bandied about a bit at the time was that MCGeeney ruined Kildare football. I can certainly have a little chuckle at that one.

You say if we look back we'll never move on. If we learn nothing from our past mistakes we'll will never amount to anything. We will still be here in a decade with Conleths park not fit for purpose. The clubs will still be propping up the county board paying levies and selling tickets.

Our county teams will stumble from one year to the next with no plan,goal or vision.

And of course we will opt for managers for these teams who try their best rather than getting "thee best".  And then in true Kildare fashion, as things inevitably go wrong the players will be blamed for our short comings because its far easier than  putting the whole set up under the microscope.

We could appoint Jim McGuinness as our manager next year with James Horan as his assistant and it wouldn't make a difference other than on the field.Our problems run much deeper and we need a complete and utter clear out of deadwood and sleeveens.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:59 pm

Freddy Krueger wrote:
We could appoint Jim McGuinness as our manager next year with James Horan as his assistant

I think most people on here would be in favour of this.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:11 pm

Freddy, its easy enough to clear out deadwood and sleeveens as you call them but what do you replace them with? When was there last some intense competition for the CB roles? Who do you know would be interested in putting themselves forward for the work involved that might radically change things?
How many people here are involved in the CB or attend as delegates? I dont and have no desire to do so at any stage in the future.
Doesn't mean I think the CB are doing a good job as they clearly are not. But the clubs had a real problem with McGeeney's attitude to access to their players and his attitude to club football was the reason for his defeat.
It's a great pity as a little concession on his part would probably have him still in charge today.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:11 pm

murof wrote:
Freddy, its easy enough to clear out deadwood and sleeveens as you call them but what do you replace them with? When was there last some intense competition for the CB roles? Who do you know would be interested in putting themselves forward for the work involved that might radically change things?
How many people here are involved in the CB or attend as delegates? I dont and have no desire to do so at any stage in the future.
Doesn't mean I think the CB are doing a good job as they clearly are not. But the clubs had a real problem with McGeeney's attitude to access to their players and his attitude to club football was the reason for his defeat.
It's a great pity as a little concession on his part would probably have him still in charge today.

murof If I was in charge of Kildare Football team in the morning my main concern would be the Kildare Football team. Not the clubs, not Conleths Park, not levies or hurling. It's the County Board's job to negotiate a compromise with the County Manager and agree it with the clubs. The onus is not on the county manager to concede anything, the onus is on him to produce a team capable of competing on the field of play within the parameters set out by the county board.

The club's problems should have been in real terms not with McGeeney.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:40 pm

Is there a game on Saturday???
Any news as to the story is fitness wise with the two Kellys, etc. Lads there is a Co Board thread and numerous others regarding the manger so can we keep this to the match.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:46 am

Not sure where Id rank us at the moment.. but if I recall, did we not scrape trough Clare in Ennis last Year ?, and was there not that oh so lucky escape V Limerick in Portlaoise ?, under McGeeney ?.
At this point in Time Id say we are at a very similar level to the likes of Longford and Sligo.

Anyway back to the Match.. For Me Midfield will be the key, and if we cant at least break even here, I fear the worst.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:56 am

I don't see us breaking even there. Laois have two big men with football in them who are much more seasoned. Moolick is good but I'd worry and Cribbin needs to be freed up for his running game so not sure if I'd have him in the middle at all.
We are missing a spoiler against their men. Plus a big ball on top of Kingston won't have me sitting easy.
Teams being thrown up here but does anyone have any whispers?
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:56 am

Midfield battles in the traditional sense are less important these days due to the preponderance of short kickouts. I think Moolick and Cribben will be well able to hold their own. What I'm primarily concerned about is the defensive set-up, which wasn't right during the league, and also the fade-outs at important moments.

If we could rectify those, I think we'd win. Unfortunately, Ryan hasn't got to grips with them for 18 months so not much faith he will now.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:04 am

Maybe but they have the let it long option in the middle and more worryingly up front as I think in general we don't have lads who could bully Kingston.
We have to put pressure out the field but we seem to always drop back and even with bodies there lads can blast through without any real hits put in.
Anyone fancy making a stab at the team...
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:06 am

SeamusMurphy wrote:
Not sure where Id rank us at the moment.. but if I recall, did we not scrape trough Clare in Ennis last Year ?, and was there not that oh so lucky escape V Limerick in Portlaoise ?, under McGeeney ?.
At this point in Time Id say we are at a very similar level to the likes of Longford and Sligo.

Anyway back to the Match.. For Me Midfield will be the key, and if we cant at least break even here, I fear the worst.

Longford were Div 4 this year while Clare and Tipp held ther own in Div 3 and both are on an upward curve which puts them - I agree - not far off our level. We were damn lucky in Ennis last year. If we met Tipp in particular again my view of our status would certainly be put to the test. But I think Longford are behind both of those teams. They looked pretty unfit and pretty clueless against Dublin on Sunday. I don't think Tipp in particular would have lost by that score and I doubt Clare would have done either. Just my view, it's all about opinions (it is a forum after all!)
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:31 am

I think any Team that goes Man for Man against the Dubs will be destroyed.. and not just the weaker Teams either.. Look what happened to Mayo and Monaghan in their League Ties.. Monaghan changed things a Week later for the Semi Final, and ran them to a Point, lesson learnt.. If we should beat Laois, If anything we should be grateful to Longford, who have shown us the "how Not to Play" against the Dubs.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:36 am

I'd have hoped those lessons were learned through our own experiences against Dublin. Not another teams'.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:35 am

kildare 11/10 15/2 draw laois evans

kildare (+1) 8/11 handicap draw (1) 8/1 laois (-1) 11/8
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:51 pm

Bit of money for Laois since the betting opened so!! Rumours seem to be indicating we are going to set up as a poor man's Donegal. Laois' half back line is quite good. and I wouldn't be sure inviting them up the field is such a good idea. How in ever as most have said we do need a proper defensive structure as we have been conceding too much all year. Having men back behind the ball is not in itself the answer though, they have to be able to tackle well and force turnovers without giving away soft frees which Kingston and Munnelly will slot over.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:09 pm

If he is going to play defensively, that will be the third or fourth tactic change this year alone.
But as topcat says, there is being defensive and knowing what you are doing and then there is defensive and everyone running around like headless chickens, fouling or missing tackles.
You can't play that kind of game with 8 weeks work behind you. this type of game takes years and a type of player we don't have. I would also question if we are fit enough to try it as the amount of running required is immense.

If we don't get parity in the middle we are gonners. During the league game we played the short kick out and it worked until the Laois management took off the blinkers and realised we had no midfield and pushed up on our kick outs. Donnellan was suddenly under the pump and he started finding Blue jerseys. They scored at will for 20 minutes and until Bolton rescued us we were beaten again

The Queens are mad up for this one, considering the hidings we dished out at all levels to them over the last six years it shows how far we have fallen.
But as I said my dislike for them out weighs any dislike I have for Ryan so he better pull the finger out and do something to be remembered for in a positive light.

As for the team. God knows, with so many lads unavailable for one reason or the big reason I haven't a clue how he'll line us out.

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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:58 am

Very good points there re: Defence and how it should be structured, and spot on Baba about Midfield if Laois push up on our short kick out.. I just wonder, where are the Scores gonna come from ?. especially if Nial isn't fit.. I would also have concerns about our free taking, especially a left footed One, if im assuming Mulhall is still out of favour.. Anyway roll on Saturdy Night, and lets see where we are at.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:07 am

" but we are under no illusions where we are; we are not at a stage right now that when the pundits are discussing provincial or All-Ireland contenders we are maybe not on many lists but success is all relative to each individual county at any time but all that matters now is our performance against Laois.”

Some of Jason's latest words of wisdom.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:19 am

I think our kickouts are going to be fraught. We don’t want to go long and Laois know we don’t want to go long – they really should push up which leaves Connolly and the backs under pressure. He has to be quick to the tee and the backs have to be ready immediately to receive the ball. If the initial short one is not on then plan b has to be to the wings and away from Quigley’s running jump.

I was at Carlow – Laois and their keeper was ready to go very quickly in the first half. Despite their dominance in the middle there was huge movement from their backs looking to shake free of their markers to win the ball. There was none of this in the second half – like they’d decided to shut down their brand new Championship kickout strategy in case anyone was looking. I think Kildare have to push up as well and force Laois to kick long – and when they do look to break the ball first and foremost. The forwards that are pushed up then have to be on their toes knowing the ball will be broken towards them. If you go in to a jumping competition with Quigley you’ll lose.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:58 am

Cork and Armagh changed their system mid-season last year and were reasonably successful so it is possible to do it but I wouldn't have great confidence in the management team being able to get the players to implement a suitable system seeing they haven't been able to do it so far. I think they are right to go defensive though. The Roscommon and Galway games showed we are not good enough to go man for man at the back against the better teams.
On the kick-outs, I think we should be prepared to go long if there isn't a quick/short one available. When the risky short kick-outs go wrong, it nearly always leads to a score for the opposition. At least if we go long and lose it they will be a long way from our goal and our defence should be in position.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:38 am

clonmullin wrote:
I think our kickouts are going to be fraught. We don’t want to go long and Laois know we don’t want to go long – they really should push up which leaves Connolly and the backs under pressure. He has to be quick to the tee and the backs have to be ready immediately to receive the ball. If the initial short one is not on then plan b has to be to the wings and away from Quigley’s running jump.

I was at Carlow – Laois and their keeper was ready to go very quickly in the first half. Despite their dominance in the middle there was huge movement from their backs looking to shake free of their markers to win the ball. There was none of this in the second half – like they’d decided to shut down their brand new Championship kickout strategy in case anyone was looking. I think Kildare have to push up as well and force Laois to kick long – and when they do look to break the ball first and foremost. The forwards that are pushed up then have to be on their toes knowing the ball will be broken towards them. If you go in to a jumping competition with Quigley you’ll lose.

Connolly  ???????????
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:29 am

My fear about us setting up ultra-defensively is that it has never tended to suit us in the past.
McGeeney tried to get us playing that way in his first year and it was disastrous and the main factor in us losing to Wicklow.
He realised the mistake and a couple of months later we were pressing Cork in an All-Ireland quarter-final.

I was at the league match against Dublin in 2013 when we tried something similar and it was an embarrassment.

I saw the league match against Meath this year and it worked for a while but then Meath missed a stack of frees and when we needed to get scores we couldn't do it.

I'm not saying we should go out wide open but a balance between defence and attack is necessary. We beat Laois seven weeks ago so we don't need to go out with 14 men around our own 'D'.

If we play with a balance between defence and attack and Niall and Peter Kelly are fit then we have at least a 50-50 chance.

If we go out ultra-defensive - in other words, fearful of them - it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As I've said before, this game is a massive test of our players' character. And despite the awful results this year, there are players with character in the side: Bolton and Smith and Paudie and I expect the likes of Doyle, Hyland, Cribbin, Moolick and the two Kellys to deliver big performances as well.

If we are injury-free and seriously tuned in we can win this game.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:50 am

+1
In fairness i think that we are one of the teams most guilty of 'getting men back' and somehow allowing teams to breeze through. Then when we get the ball coming out there is no burst up the field just a haphazard slow build-up that might end up in a score.
We are like Ireland's soccer centre mid under Trap. They never really committed forward as they had to defend but at the same time our back 4 were always exposed.
If we do mind the house we need lads actually stepping out and hitting lads if needs be. Lots of big games needed on Saturday.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:00 pm

Problem is a lot of players have been injured through the season. P and N Kelly haven't had a clear run. Moolick hasn't had a clear run. Darryl hasn't had a clear run for four or five years.

Kildare don't have a reliable freetaker.

Kildare struggle in the middle for ball-winning.

Kildare don't have a goalkeeper who can hit the mark consistently from kickouts.

These are issues that are there a few years. Even JD wasn't a top-tier freetaker and there's no-one within an asses roar of his calibre in the squad.

Midfield has been an issue since 2010 since when I'm about the only one in the county hasn't been tried there. You cannot expect to win primary possession there, it won't happen. Maybe if they flood it, they will try to pick up breaks but that was a tactic that took two years to perfect under McGeeney - and you had Dermot and Darryl flying in that era.

I'd agree that they have to mind the house but in a balanced way. I too have heard they have gone ultra defensive and been scoring very little. That won't work against Laois as has been said, they have an attacking half-back line comfortable on the ball, and Strong is their Bolton, probably even more accurate. YOu can't invite them onto you, especially as I suspect they will have so much possession.

As it is, I feel you are going to have to turn them over a lot and hit them on the break. Hopefully Niall Kelly is fit. Podge / Fionn in the system that is likely to be played will have to make the ball stick inside. Daniel Flynn is a massive loss but clearly he's not in the frame of mind for football.

I would think Laois should be favourites but hopefully the lads can dig one out. I know what people are saying about Dublin but that's a problem for another day. As a standalone fixture, they must have the desire to win it.

A good, dogged, one-point win would do wonders for morale, if not the heart.


Last edited by Ogie on Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Laois   Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:12 pm

Yeah striking the right balance will be important. We went all out defensive in our first three league games and it blunted any attacking threat we possess. Picking an extra back in the half forward line might be a good alternative and it is something that we had some success with in the past. Morgan O'Flaherty, Brian Flanagan and Eoin Doyle were selected at wing forward at various stages in the past and played as extra half back cover. Fergal Conway did so for the county minors and for his club and Kevin Murnaghan did ok in the same role in the O'Byrne Cup so we do have options.

The trouble is which player do we sacrifice from the forward line and which of the Laois players would we be leaving free to do damage. There's also a risk that if you pick the wrong player to play as a sweeper that the opposition can completely nullify his impact by bypassing him. You need a player who understands the role and is very effective at marking space. Morgan O'Flaherty was excellent at this, as was David Duke when introduced for the u21s this year. We'll have to try something a bit different because we can't continue to leave the full back line completely exposed.

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