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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: County Plan   Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:28 am

Okay, think I've managed to upload this. Obviously we are doing some things right and producing well at underage although loads of room for improvement. But other threads have discussed finance, management, the senior team, club and everything else and how we're a mess. Some will throw out the fact Roscommon lost to Sligo but I'm not saying to copy it exactly or it would work as is for Kildare, but I'm just showing what forward-thinking counties came up with and crucially implemented, something that has made a massive difference. Didn't agree with all but found it an interesting read and put together by people with a plan, a vision and energy.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1I3MblMFtulRFiDY5hD_cmrhUsxkFtcFfFTVadSVwnJY/edit?usp=sharing


Last edited by TommyKeegan on Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:55 am

Would the best way not be to upload it to a power point hosting site and provide the link?

Can't imagine there would be any other way.
Either that or upload each presentaton page as a picture over a number of posts
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if_in_doubt
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:05 am

Would it be worthwhile uploading it to Google docs and sharing the link here?

If it's the structure / plan based on the Belgian football model then it'd definitely make for some interesting reading Tommy, you'd have to wonder why the county board didn't even entertain the idea of it.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:35 am

Cheers lads, think I managed to get that to work in first post now. Might be of interest to some.
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:28 am

Very interesting overall however I feel our current club championship and league structure is excellent even down as far as U/14. The rest of it, yeah lots there for taught.
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lillyboy
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:47 pm

plenty of good stuff and joined up thinking but the finance is key and we're making very little progress on that front. Who has the vision to bring Kildare gaa forward?
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:04 pm

lillyboy wrote:
plenty of good stuff and joined up thinking but the finance is key and we're making very little progress on that front. Who has the vision to bring Kildare gaa forward?

The big problem is they did nothing when they were in a situation to rake it in. Now the climate is an excuse but it's not a good one. I just think you need a financial mind and if you have to pay them on an incentive-basis or whatever. But you can't have just any guy doing it, however well-meaning. You need a salesman. You need a heavy-hitter. God what a legend Michael Osborne was.
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white boy
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:58 am

Kildare need a good ceo a man that will bring in a lot of money and sell Kildare gaa to the likes of Dubai duty free Ect there are loads of company's that we could partner with for drinks training gear cars ect . Kildare need a seprarate arm to run it finance end of story nobody in cb should be near finance
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:35 pm

white boy wrote:
Kildare need a good ceo a man that will bring in a lot of money and  sell Kildare gaa to the likes of Dubai duty free   Ect  there are loads of company's  that we could partner with for drinks training gear  cars ect . Kildare need a  seprarate arm to run it finance  end of story nobody in cb should be near finance

But that arm needs to be answerable and accountable to the county board.
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:57 pm

Any business looking from the outside in would have to be very wary of having anything to do with Kildare GAA.

Let's be honest here. If I owned a large business or was an Irish director of a large multinational in Kildare would I give my money or put my neck on the line and give someone elses money to the Kildare County Board to do as they wish?

I think we all know that answer.  Any potential sponsorship or partnership with businesses around Kildare must surely be looking at the last 2 years and be thinking thanks but no thanks. Not only because of results. Everything - from the absolute farcical vote on our previous manager to Seanie Johnson, Player defections, relegations, state of Conleths Park and of course the charisma and leadership of Jason Ryan.
Put it this way if we appoint a low key journey man as our next manager expect a low key interest in Kildare. The one good thing about our previous manager was we were never far from the back pages for one reason or another and we were also dining near the top table. If we want to get back there the ability of our next manager to market himself , the team and Kildare must be excellent.

We also need some new fresh young faces and ideas at County board level along with the experienced decent lads and ladies there at the moment to drive us forward.
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kickingking
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:34 pm

More links between the secondary schools in the county and Kildare GAA is something that I would like to see.

It's no great coincidence that Kildare schools have been a lot more competitive in the various colleges competitions recently and the county minor team's fortunes have improved greatly since 2009. We've had Ardscoil Rath Iomghain winning their All Ireland this year, Scoil Mhuire and Cross and Passion have won Leinster titles. Ardscoil na Trinoide and the PBS have been competitive in Leinster senior colleges football as have Maynooth PP and Salesian College in Dublin Colleges competitions. Plenty of Kildare players have been very successful for St Mary's Edenderry too.

Colm O'Rourke makes the point in the Indo today that Westmeath have five schools in the Leinster "A" colleges competition as opposed to Meath's one.  The Roscommon example is also a good one considering there was a Roscommon school in the Hogan Cup final this year. Pobalscoil Corca Dhuibhne have won the last two Hogan Cups and they backboned the Kerry minor team who won the All Ireland.

Colleges competition exposes young footballers to a high standard of football at a formative age. A lot of the Kildare schools teams are made up of players from smaller clubs. Training with better players and playing big games at colleges level is only going to bring them on.

Kildare GAA should be looking at ways to assist the secondary schools in the county. A lot of primary teachers undertake coaching courses at this time of year but there are few if any of these courses available for secondary teachers. We don't have the money to pay for coaches like Dublin can so we have to come up with other ways. Kildare GAA should be organising coaching seminars for teachers and underage coaches. Have them working with the mentors of our county development squads. Invite school teams up to Hawkfield. Get county footballers to speak to these young footballers about what's involved and run training sessions for them.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:28 am

Great post KK.
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Big Full Back
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:55 pm

Agree with KK. You can have the man above and no matter what can be done if you don't have the quality you'll always be playing catch up. We're not the only county to have had success at underage level but it's turning it into sustained success is the key. There's plenty of counties that have shown great potential with good minor and U-21 teams but unless you can continue to develop and improve you will never reach the top.
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kickingking
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:27 am

http://www.southernstar.ie/Sport/Former-Cork-stars-lend-a-helping-hand-03072015.htm

This has been touched upon before and it appears that we're a bit behind a number of other counties on this. We need to be getting more of our former players involved in the development system.
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:26 pm

It's the same in Dublin. But I know for a fact that numerous ex-Kildare players have turned down involvement in the development squads. In fact one went public about how much against them he was and that they were rife with favouritism and Daddys getting their sons involved. His club hasn't been a tremendous supporter either mind you.

Brian Murphy was there from the start and Tadhg Fennin became involved because it is part of his job and has had a huge impact thankfully. But that's it.
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:55 pm

Ogie wrote:
It's the same in Dublin. But I know for a fact that numerous ex-Kildare players have turned down involvement in the development squads. In fact one went public about how much against them he was and that they were rife with favouritism and Daddys getting their sons involved. His club hasn't been a tremendous supporter either mind you.

Brian Murphy was there from the start and Tadhg Fennin became involved because it is part of his job and has had a huge impact thankfully.  But that's it.

Brian Lacey?
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:14 pm

Ogie wrote:
It's the same in Dublin. But I know for a fact that numerous ex-Kildare players have turned down involvement in the development squads. In fact one went public about how much against them he was and that they were rife with favouritism and Daddys getting their sons involved.

That's a pity. The development squads obviously work and we are in our 3rd Leinster minor final in a row but I think in order to be really successful (i.e. compete for All-Ireland titles) we need more former county players involved.

Would that be the reason most of the other former players turn it down?
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:23 pm

I am curious apart from a name what do people expect "former players" to bring? Our biggest issue is not producing players but that transition from under-age to Senior. I think it's quite damning that no u21 has broken through into the Senior team this year.
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:59 pm

This is what Derek Kavanagh said in the article kickingking sent the link to:

It’s very important that former players are involved,’ Kavanagh said.
‘You have top-level administrators there, but they can only do so much. You leave the strength and conditioning to the strength and conditioning experts, there are top-level coaches working in the county, fantastic GDAs, and you do need that flavour of former inter-county players who can tell the players what it’s about.

‘It’s an asset to have players who have been involved at inter-county level to impart that knowledge to the players, about what it takes to be involved at inter-county level at minor, U21 and senior. We might have two hours once a week or we might see them twice a month so we need to maximise that time.’
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:39 pm

See unless ex-players are qualified coaches all they can really offer to young players are vicarious experiences. Now with 2 Leinster titles in 60 years should we really want our players telling them what it's like to be a player for Kildare.

What our development squads should focus on and I think they do is the mastery approach where qualified coaches create a climate in which players receive positive reinforcement from the coach when they (a) work hard, (b) demonstrate improvement, (c) help others learn through cooperation, and (d) believe that each player’s contribution is important. These kind of climates give players the opportunity to develop the kind of intrinsic motivation to really push them and Kildare into the top level.

Our under-age had shown vast improvement in the last 8 years. 4 minor finals in the last 7 years compared to 1 in the previous 17. We have also beaten Dublin 3 times in those 7 years.

Leinster Final Appearances in those 7 years

Kildare 4
Dublin 4
Meath 2
Longford 2
Offaly 1
Westmeath 1

We've also picked up 2 Leinster u21s in the last 8 years, beaten in another final and should be favouites next year when the 2013 team minor winning team will be the backbone.

Is it perfect no, are the foundations there yes, do we need ex-players involved not so sure, do we need more and more coaches involved absolutley yes.
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:31 am

Dinny Breen wrote:
Ogie wrote:
It's the same in Dublin. But I know for a fact that numerous ex-Kildare players have turned down involvement in the development squads. In fact one went public about how much against them he was and that they were rife with favouritism and Daddys getting their sons involved. His club hasn't been a tremendous supporter either mind you.

Brian Murphy was there from the start and Tadhg Fennin became involved because it is part of his job and has had a huge impact thankfully.  But that's it.

Brian Lacey?

Was Brian involved with the development squads? I know he was with the minors but before that he was with Limerick seniors. So unless he was involved before that.
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:37 am

Dinny Breen wrote:
See unless ex-players are qualified coaches all they can really offer to young players are vicarious experiences. Now with 2 Leinster titles in 60 years should we really want our players telling them what it's like to be a player for Kildare.

What our development squads should focus on and I think they do is the mastery approach where qualified coaches create a climate in which players receive positive reinforcement from the coach when they (a) work hard, (b) demonstrate improvement, (c) help others learn through cooperation, and (d) believe that each player’s contribution is important. These kind of climates give players the opportunity to develop the kind of intrinsic motivation to really push them and Kildare into the top level.

Our under-age had shown vast improvement in the last 8 years. 4 minor finals in the last 7 years compared to 1 in the previous 17. We have also beaten Dublin 3 times in those 7 years.

Leinster Final Appearances in those 7 years

Kildare 4
Dublin 4
Meath 2
Longford 2
Offaly 1
Westmeath 1

We've also picked up 2 Leinster u21s in the last 8 years, beaten in another final and should be favouites next year when the 2013 team minor winning team will be the backbone.

Is it perfect no, are the foundations there yes, do we need ex-players involved not so sure, do we need more and more coaches involved absolutley yes.

I would say initially you would have liked the likes of Brian Murphy, Karl O'Dwyer, Declan Kerrigan, Sos Dowling - men who did operate successfully, at the highest level. They didn't get much sports science from Mick oof course but as said above, that would never have been their roles. That's in place.

Now, you'd love to get guys from the 2009-20011 group involved. But there seems a massive rush to fast-track them to U21s, senior - but wouldn't it be great for the county U16s to have Dermot Earley with them for three years, or Johnny or Roly or Brian Flanagan. Men who know and only accept the highest standards. And whose very presence ensures respect. It's not the be-all and end-all, but an element.

But the point is very well made. The development squad system has been a success and Kildare are performing very well. Probably could have won a title or two more but it is only after minor that the Dubs are exerting dominance and indeed, really only after U21, for all the money.
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:40 am

JohnnyC wrote:
Ogie wrote:
It's the same in Dublin. But I know for a fact that numerous ex-Kildare players have turned down involvement in the development squads. In fact one went public about how much against them he was and that they were rife with favouritism and Daddys getting their sons involved.

That's a pity. The development squads obviously work and we are in our 3rd Leinster minor final in a row but I think in order to be really successful (i.e. compete for All-Ireland titles) we need more former county players involved.

Would that be the reason most of the other former players turn it down?

Would what be a reason - favouritism and Daddys getting their sons on? I think not. I don't think it was a policy that was rife. Like anything, it happened a couple of times. I'd say because the lad was good enough. Someone has to take the job and the thing to remember is that it is not a one-year commitment usually, it's two or three years. The only thing that was different in Kildare to Dublin was that you handed them over at 17. You didn't continue with them through minor. So a lot of what was done for three years was changed. But Murph obviously did a good job and Brendan Hackett seems to have done well this year too.
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:17 am

Given a choice I would sooner a top quality skills coach, sports psychologist or an S&C coach working with underage players. Is there a role for ex-players as mentors absolutely but how important in the greater scheme it would be I don't know, it's hard to measure.

If you looked at the 98 team Brian Murphy would have been way down the list of players would love to see involved same with Tadhg from the 2000 team but Brian in particular has been excellent, should have a won a minor in 2010 which would have made 5 Leinster final appearances in 7 years but the Dublin saga and ridiculous schedule left us open to an ambush by Longford. Also Brian was up against a culture of massive under-achievement, that we have turned that tide in no small thanks to his and his coaching team's work. We need to be patient, players are coming through - just at looking at that 2010 team Donnellan, N Kelly, Fogarty, F Conway, Moolick and Cribben are only really establishing themselves now.

Yes I believe there is a place for ex-players just not that important in the bigger scheme, for every good one like Brian Murphy/Dessie Farrell you get one like Paddy Christie who was too close to Ballymun and let his emotions get in the way.

I think our structures are good and now that we are contesting Leinster regularly the next step is contesting All-Irelands and there is the kicker how many of our ex-players have contested them?

If I controlled the purse strings more money on coaches in clubs for the ages of 6-12 and then more money on coaches in not just the Section A schools but schools like Kildare Community College, close to 500 boys and a terrible football program. I just wouldn't get too hung up on ex-players.
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PostSubject: Re: County Plan   Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:21 am

Interesting article about Johnny Doyle on the hoganstand website. I'm not sure if his new role is more promotional than coaching but it's good to see him involved. http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=253575

Doyle to guide Kildare's future stars

Former All-Star Johnny Doyle has taken up a new role after he was appointed Kildare GAA’s Community Development and Participation Officer.

One of the county’s best ever footballers, Doyle’s role will entail implementing specific GAA Games Development Policies and Kildare Local Sports Partnership programmes throughout the county.

To have someone of Doyle’s standing in the county, take up such a role is seen as a major coup for the Kildare County Board.

The Allenwood clubman will be handed the task of promoting Gaelic Games in the county amongst children and he will also work closely with schools in a bid to do this.
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