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LillieLad
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:17 pm

Oh just want to mention Paudi O'Neill he got through some amount of work and did the simple things very well last night. Typical Paudi performance does the dirty work but had a savage game!! Great diving save by Fitzpatrick too actually!! Im buzzing!!
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:19 pm

So nice to wake up after that victory!positivity is the key now and if we give that performance again WE WILL BEAT KERRY!better book the Monday off work after the final ha Up The Lillies
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:24 pm

Crofter I'm genuinely not looking for a row as I'm still on a high from one of the best days of my life yesterday and I'm sick of having the same arguments over and over on this forum.

But it's a little hard to buy the "mature and balanced" line when you were on here during the league saying the manager "must" be sacked mid-season.

To be honest if I was you or any of the other guys who were saying that I'd be on admitting that I got it wrong.

Now ye want to dismiss all four of our championship wins as irrelevant despite one or all of ye being on before them telling us we were going to lose.

To be honest I thought we might lose to Laois and that we'd definitely lose to Cork but at least I can see that that makes winning those games and winning them well an achievement for a team like ours.

A lot of posters want to play down last night because Cork had "only" seven days to recover from losing a Munster final by a few points. Yet ye would die before giving Ryan credit for winning a difficult fixture against Offaly six days after a 19-point bating.

Ye tell us the manager must be sacked, ye tell us we're going to lose game x, y and z, then when we hammer all those teams ye go "ah sure that was just against x, y and z". And then when people want to celebrate kicking the lard out of a division one team like we've never done in championship in my 25 years watching Kildare, ye tell us we're not being mature and balanced.

It's a bit much to take man.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:30 pm

walsheman wrote:
So nice to wake up after that victory!positivity is the key now and if we give that performance again  WE WILL BEAT KERRY!better book the Monday off work after the final ha Up The Lillies

Bank holiday Walsheman, all sorted ! Keep your holidays for September .....
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:48 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Crofter I'm genuinely not looking for a row as I'm still on a high from one of the best days of my life yesterday and I'm sick of having the same arguments over and over on this forum.

But it's a little hard to buy the "mature and balanced" line when you were on here during the league saying the manager "must" be sacked mid-season.

To be honest if I was you or any of the other guys who were saying that I'd be on admitting that I got it wrong.

Now ye want to dismiss all four of our championship wins as irrelevant despite one or all of ye being on before them telling us we were going to lose.

To be honest I thought we might lose to Laois and that we'd definitely lose to Cork but at least I can see that that makes winning those games and winning them well an achievement for a team like ours.

A lot of posters want to play down last night because Cork had "only" seven days to recover from losing a Munster final by a few points. Yet ye would die before giving Ryan credit for winning a difficult fixture against Offaly six days after a 19-point bating.

Ye tell us the manager must be sacked, ye tell us we're going to lose game x, y and z, then when we hammer all those teams ye go "ah sure that was just against x, y and z". And then when people want to celebrate kicking the lard out of a division one team like we've never done in championship in my 25 years watching Kildare, ye tell us we're not being mature and balanced.

It's a bit much to take man.

I hate to have to go back to the past but things I've said in the past seem to be continuously brought up.

Just for clarity O2 members of this forum were not the only one questioning Ryan and his methods the last 2 years. There was growing discontent in the club's and the national media had all but forgotten about Kildare football.

I won't play down the win or significance of it last night. It is a massive massive step forward for everyone involved including the county board. If nothing else it backs up my beliefs that we have good footballers in Kildare.

With proper investment and planning and if everyone is pulling in the right direction there's no reason why wins like this cannot become more regular.

I will be more than happy to be proved wrong about Ryan and his 3 selectors. But as it stands the jury is still out. He has however achieved something that no manager has done in over a decade and that can only help his case to be retained.

We've had so many losses over the lat 2 years O2 it's only right you get a chance to come on a sow he boot in adopting a told you so attitude to those who spoke out about Ryan and the set up.

Enjoy it.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:51 pm

I didn't tell you so though. I had no idea how we'd go and if Paul Kingston put that point over we might be gone.

All I said was we should see how the championship goes. You ridiculed me for saying that.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:02 am

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
I didn't tell you so though. I had no idea how we'd go and if Paul Kingston put that point over we might be gone.

All I said was we should see how the championship goes. You ridiculed me for saying that.

Ridiculed is a strong word. I would have said disagreed with you on retaining Ryan. I personally seen no reason to retain him at the time. And let's be honest O2 not many did. It was a truly abysmal league campaign .

And I don't agree with the school of thought that a manager be judged only on championship. He should be judged right across the board.
On results. Performances. Tactics. Development of players and bringing through new talent.
The Senior team is the shop window for Kildare GAA. Falling revenue can also be something the senior manager can be judged upon.

At this moment in time I'd give Ryan another season highly depending on the Kerry performance. I'd also look to bring in Cian O'Neill beside him to freshen things up. I sat it when McGeeney was changed that we shouldn't change unless you're improving the set up.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:44 am

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Crofter I'm genuinely not looking for a row as I'm still on a high from one of the best days of my life yesterday and I'm sick of having the same arguments over and over on this forum.

But it's a little hard to buy the "mature and balanced" line when you were on here during the league saying the manager "must" be sacked mid-season.

To be honest if I was you or any of the other guys who were saying that I'd be on admitting that I got it wrong.

Now ye want to dismiss all four of our championship wins as irrelevant despite one or all of ye being on before them telling us we were going to lose.

To be honest I thought we might lose to Laois and that we'd definitely lose to Cork but at least I can see that that makes winning those games and winning them well an achievement for a team like ours.

A lot of posters want to play down last night because Cork had "only" seven days to recover from losing a Munster final by a few points. Yet ye would die before giving Ryan credit for winning a difficult fixture against Offaly six days after a 19-point bating.

Ye tell us the manager must be sacked, ye tell us we're going to lose game x, y and z, then when we hammer all those teams ye go "ah sure that was just against x, y and z". And then when people want to celebrate kicking the lard out of a division one team like we've never done in championship in my 25 years watching Kildare, ye tell us we're not being mature and balanced.

It's a bit much to take man.

Grand enjoy the day. I won't be bursting any bubbles on here any more or calling it as I see it. All's rosy and last night obliterates the last two years from the memory. Grand I get it. I'm sure we'll all feel the same in February when we're lining out against Clare.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:45 am

The thurles hoodoo has been lifted! Some result. Was the best we have played in several years. Sheer determination and heart. You cant beat it. We played a very intelligent game, slowed it down when we needed to which is a sign of a definite plan of action and some maturity. Niallers goal was something of beauty.
Was great to get on the field after and congradulate the lads. It reminded me of the invasion when we beat limerick - the sense that we had turned a corner. I feel whatever happens next week we have turned a corner and are heading in some sort of right direction. Onwards lads!! So proud to be a Kildare man.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:05 am

Kind of strange saying our discipline has improved when we got 2 black cards but was good to see no back chatting to refs.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:11 am

God Almighty but Brolly is an annoying little git. He stubbornly refused to give any credit to Kildare but focussed totally on how poor Cork were. He spent more time going on about the Munster final and how bad the referee was and had to be reminded that he was here to comment on the Kildare game.
Whelan to his credit went out of his way to praise Kildare and was very impressed with the work rate and skill on view.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:12 am

Brolly is a tosser never gave kildare any credit
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:13 am

Spoke about the munster final FFS
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:32 am

I thought Brolly and Whelan had a valid point though. I couldn't believe the amount of space Cork gave us last night. They let us play the ball around at our leisure without laying a hand on us. Dublin, Mayo or Monaghan would have been in our faces from the start, looking to turn the ball over as quick as possible.

Another area Cork were really bad on was their kick-passing. They didn't seem to be able to kick the ball 30 yards to a forward in space, we were way better than them in this area.

Not taking anything away from how well we did but I thought it was fair enough to point out that Cork weren't at the races at all last night.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:45 am

There's no show like a Joe show, pure self indulgence at its best, RTE will have to change the title to maybe, Brolly's Bitter Banter, that would be more apt.

Ciaran Whealen analysis was insightful in particular the clip with the 27 passes, Kerry will be more hands on.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:48 am

Any word from Larry Tomkins on Kildare big win over cork . We he give us any credit for i it ????
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:07 pm

Crofter wrote:
Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Crofter I'm genuinely not looking for a row as I'm still on a high from one of the best days of my life yesterday and I'm sick of having the same arguments over and over on this forum.

But it's a little hard to buy the "mature and balanced" line when you were on here during the league saying the manager "must" be sacked mid-season.

To be honest if I was you or any of the other guys who were saying that I'd be on admitting that I got it wrong.

Now ye want to dismiss all four of our championship wins as irrelevant despite one or all of ye being on before them telling us we were going to lose.

To be honest I thought we might lose to Laois and that we'd definitely lose to Cork but at least I can see that that makes winning those games and winning them well an achievement for a team like ours.

A lot of posters want to play down last night because Cork had "only" seven days to recover from losing a Munster final by a few points. Yet ye would die before giving Ryan credit for winning a difficult fixture against Offaly six days after a 19-point bating.

Ye tell us the manager must be sacked, ye tell us we're going to lose game x, y and z, then when we hammer all those teams ye go "ah sure that was just against x, y and z". And then when people want to celebrate kicking the lard out of a division one team like we've never done in championship in my 25 years watching Kildare, ye tell us we're not being mature and balanced.

It's a bit much to take man.

Grand enjoy the day. I won't be bursting any bubbles on here any more or calling it as I see it. All's rosy and last night obliterates the last two years from the memory. Grand I get it. I'm sure we'll all feel the same in February when we're lining out against Clare.

Crofter don't worry about Clare in February.

We're playing Kerry in August.

Would you prefer we were playing Kerry in February and then flopping in championship?
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:25 pm

Freddy Krueger wrote:


Ridiculed is a strong word. I would have said disagreed with you on retaining Ryan.

Lost count of the number of times I was called an apologist, an idiot, told that I had no ambition for Kildare, etc.

Freddy Krueger wrote:
I personally seen no reason to retain him at the time. And let's be honest O2 not many did.

In a poll on this site only one in four posters wanted him removed.

Freddy Krueger wrote:
And I don't agree with the school of thought that a manager be judged only on championship. He should be judged right across the board.
On results.

Just had our best one in 15 years. Has won 70% of championship games since he took over. A better return than McGeeney (66%).


Freddy Krueger wrote:
 Performances.  

Just gave our best one in 15 years.  

Freddy Krueger wrote:
 Tactics.  

Just gave a masterclass to Brian Cuthbert. 60 possessions for our midfielders. Kickout strategy has grown beyond belief this summer and that's just one example.



Freddy Krueger wrote:
Development of players and bringing through new talent.  

Mark Donnellan, Ciaran Fitzpatrick, Mick O'Grady, Kevin Murnaghan, Paul Cribbin, Tommy Moolick, Cathal McNally, Niall Kelly. When he took over these players had a handful of championship starts between them. All have improved immensely.  


Freddy Krueger wrote:
The Senior team is the shop window for Kildare GAA. Falling revenue can also be something the senior manager can be judged upon.  

"Sorry Jason, I know we hammered Cork and were only knocked out of championship by Dublin and Kerry, but we don't think you're doing enough on the revenue front, so you're sacked."  

Freddy Krueger wrote:
At this moment in time I'd give Ryan another season highly depending on the Kerry performance.

Thank the lord you have no role in these decisions otherwise we'd have gone into championship with a new manager who would have had a few weeks to prepare.

Tell me this do you still think Mick O'Dwyer should have taken over at that point? Might have brightened up the shop window in fairness.


Freddy Krueger wrote:
I'd also look to bring in Cian O'Neill beside him to freshen things up.

Finally something we can agree on. Like a stopped clock you are sometimes spot on, if only for a minute or two every day.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:00 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Crofter wrote:
Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Crofter I'm genuinely not looking for a row as I'm still on a high from one of the best days of my life yesterday and I'm sick of having the same arguments over and over on this forum.

But it's a little hard to buy the "mature and balanced" line when you were on here during the league saying the manager "must" be sacked mid-season.

To be honest if I was you or any of the other guys who were saying that I'd be on admitting that I got it wrong.

Now ye want to dismiss all four of our championship wins as irrelevant despite one or all of ye being on before them telling us we were going to lose.

To be honest I thought we might lose to Laois and that we'd definitely lose to Cork but at least I can see that that makes winning those games and winning them well an achievement for a team like ours.

A lot of posters want to play down last night because Cork had "only" seven days to recover from losing a Munster final by a few points. Yet ye would die before giving Ryan credit for winning a difficult fixture against Offaly six days after a 19-point bating.

Ye tell us the manager must be sacked, ye tell us we're going to lose game x, y and z, then when we hammer all those teams ye go "ah sure that was just against x, y and z". And then when people want to celebrate kicking the lard out of a division one team like we've never done in championship in my 25 years watching Kildare, ye tell us we're not being mature and balanced.

It's a bit much to take man.

Grand enjoy the day. I won't be bursting any bubbles on here any more or calling it as I see it. All's rosy and last night obliterates the last two years from the memory. Grand I get it. I'm sure we'll all feel the same in February when we're lining out against Clare.

Crofter don't worry about Clare in February.

We're playing Kerry in August.

Would you prefer we were playing Kerry in February and then flopping in championship?

Thanks for setting me straight. No bubble bursting here from now on.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:35 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Freddy Krueger wrote:


Ridiculed is a strong word. I would have said disagreed with you on retaining Ryan.

Lost count of the number of times I was called an apologist, an idiot, told that I had no ambition for Kildare, etc.

Freddy Krueger wrote:
I personally seen no reason to retain him at the time. And let's be honest O2 not many did.

In a poll on this site only one in four posters wanted him removed.

Freddy Krueger wrote:
And I don't agree with the school of thought that a manager be judged only on championship. He should be judged right across the board.
On results.

Just had our best one in 15 years. Has won 70% of championship games since he took over. A better return than McGeeney (66%).


Freddy Krueger wrote:
 Performances.  

Just gave our best one in 15 years.  

Freddy Krueger wrote:
 Tactics.  

Just gave a masterclass to Brian Cuthbert. 60 possessions for our midfielders. Kickout strategy has grown beyond belief this summer and that's just one example.



Freddy Krueger wrote:
Development of players and bringing through new talent.  

Mark Donnellan, Ciaran Fitzpatrick, Mick O'Grady, Kevin Murnaghan, Paul Cribbin, Tommy Moolick, Cathal McNally, Niall Kelly. When he took over these players had a handful of championship starts between them. All have improved immensely.  


Freddy Krueger wrote:
The Senior team is the shop window for Kildare GAA. Falling revenue can also be something the senior manager can be judged upon.  

"Sorry Jason, I know we hammered Cork and were only knocked out of championship by Dublin and Kerry, but we don't think you're doing enough on the revenue front, so you're sacked."  

Freddy Krueger wrote:
At this moment in time I'd give Ryan another season highly depending on the Kerry performance.

Thank the lord you have no role in these decisions otherwise we'd have gone into championship with a new manager who would have had a few weeks to prepare.

Tell me this do you still think Mick O'Dwyer should have taken over at that point? Might have brightened up the shop window in fairness.


Freddy Krueger wrote:
I'd also look to bring in Cian O'Neill beside him to freshen things up.

Finally something we can agree on. Like a stopped clock you are sometimes spot on, if only for a minute or two every day.

The whole basis of your argument is one match in 2 years O2. Every point you make is about the Cork match.

Tactics - Cork Match
Performance - Cork Match
Development of players - Cork Match

Which is ludicrous in the extreme .

Maybe we'll save this conversation until after the Kerry game. It will possibly be a better barometer of where we are at.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:20 pm

Nah. The Cork game was the one we overachieved in and therefore the obvious one to mention. But I've been happy with almost all our other championship performances under Ryan.

Only one where I thought we were really bad was Meath last year. We got it completely wrong first half.

Dublin this year was hardly good either but there's such a gulf in class there that no manager or gameplan would see us beat them these days.

Clare last year was probably a bit dodgy (didn't see the game).

But very happy with the Louth, Down, Monaghan, Laois, Offaly, Longford and Cork games.

You'll probably say those results were nothing special but you would have predicted defeats in most of them. And they are games that have to be won. Teams around our level - Roscommon, Derry, Down, Cavan, Armagh, etc - lose those types of games all the time. We never do.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:43 pm

Just curious but how do you define or assess "our level"? If you take your earlier arguments we must ignore the league as merely a pre-season warm up. If you take championship and look at "our level" from the point Ryan took over, we'd been in Quarter Finals 5 years out of 6. So our level was presumably top 8 with a bunch of talented under 21's coming through. Certainly our level was therefore above the Roscommons, Cavans, Downs and possibly Armaghs who had nothing like that record. Just curious..
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:51 pm

bob12 wrote:
Brolly is a tosser never gave kildare any credit

He's becoming a complete embarrassment. If he'd at least given Kildare credit for their attitude, you could then listen to his views on Cork's failings with some credence. But harking back to a penalty decision 3 weeks previously as an excuse for Cork was ridiculous. How many times have Kildare battled back from adversity (no less than this season) to win qualifiers against lower level opposition with a one week turnaround? Cork did prove to be mentality weak, though we're seen as traitors if we being that up on here, but his rant about the Munster final meant there couldn't be a balanced, sensible discussion on the relative merits of Kildare's performance (and there were clearly many as Whelan pointed out). Thought Des should have cut across him earlier to bring him back to the match they were supposedly analysing but it's the Sunday Game after all. Wish I hadn't bothered watching it for that shite.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:09 pm

Crofter wrote:
Just curious but how do you define or assess "our level"? If you take your earlier arguments we must ignore the league as merely a pre-season warm up. If you take championship and look at "our level" from the point Ryan took over, we'd been in Quarter Finals 5 years out of 6. So our level was presumably top 8 with a bunch of talented under 21's coming through. Certainly our level was therefore above the Roscommons, Cavans, Downs and possibly Armaghs who had nothing like that record. Just curious..

First on the league, it is far more important than a warm-up. I'm just saying championship overrides it and is what a team is judged on. Would you trade this season for Roscommon's, who were promoted to division one and lost to Fermanagh and Sligo in championship? I don't think you would. I think if Kildare lost to two teams like that in championship, you'd be on here having a meltdown even if we'd won the last three leagues. And I think you'd have a point.

As for our level. Fair question. My opinion:

I'd put Kerry, Mayo, Donegal and Dublin as the elite.

I'd put Tyrone, Monaghan and Cork below them (all three have rattled/beaten one of the top four this year).

I'd say the next dozen or so teams are all capable of beating each other on a given day. I would rank us in the middle of this. Teams in this bracket (in no particular order): Galway, Roscommon, Tipperary, Kildare, Meath, Laois, Westmeath, Armagh, Cavan, Derry, Down. Probably Fermanagh too, after this year. 

Teams below that are either shyte or lack consistency but can be dangerous (Sligo beating Roscommon, Longford beating Derry, etc).



Unfair to compare the team that made five quarters running with this one because they're completely different teams. Only surviving personnel from 2011 to 2015 are probably past their absolute peak while still being very useful (eg Leper, Paudie, Emmet, etc). But by my reckoning 10 of the starting 15 on Saturday had nothing to do with the team you're referring to or were just getting their first start as that era ended.

We didn't make the quarters in 2013 and 2014 as that team broke up and a new one was built. Great to be back there, I thought it might take another year or two (regardless of the manager). As Ciaran Whelan said while talking about Cribbin and Niallers on TSG, it takes time to adapt to this level out of underage.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Cork   Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:26 pm

It was a great win on Saturday but there was a bit of a freakish element to it as Cork didn't really show up (I'm probably going to get in trouble for saying this) The question is: have we really turned the corner and can we expect performances like this from now on? I know we are not going to be beating top teams easily every week but if we can show the same workrate and organisation as Saturday from now on I think most Kildare fans would be happy. To be honest, I thought/hoped we had turned the corner after the Monaghan game last year so that's why I'm a bit sceptical.

Here's a bit of (rare) praise from Eugene McGee:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/lilies-bloom-as-red-rose-wilts-in-summer-heat-31405452.html
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