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 How Do We Move Forward??

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lillyboy
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:24 pm

am I reading that wrong or is that an attack on the character of the minors? Whatever people may think about their football ability this is a team who have recovered from loosing the opening round, staged late rallies to beat Offaly and Laois, beat Dublin after a nightmare start, won Leinster and are now one hour away from an All Ireland final. Far from getting wrapped in cotton wool they have two rounds of club minor and adult championship to play before the semi indeed many were training with their clubs on sunday morning. There's a lot wrong with Kildare football but lets not saddle young lads with the sins of whats gone before them
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stanley
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:31 pm

First thing we need to do is develop a game plan that suits our playing style, beginning by appointing a defence coach.
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Stonecold
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:58 pm

lillyboy wrote:
am I reading that wrong or is that an attack on the character of the minors? Whatever people may think about their football ability this is a team who have recovered from loosing the opening round, staged late rallies to beat Offaly and Laois, beat Dublin after a nightmare start, won Leinster and are now one hour away from an All Ireland final. Far from getting wrapped in cotton wool they have two rounds of club minor and adult championship to play before the semi indeed many were training with their clubs on sunday morning. There's a lot wrong with Kildare football but lets not saddle young lads with the sins of whats gone before them

No its not a bloody attack on the minors, its saying Kildare at all levels have a soft underbelly, always have, we're known for it, we play nice football but we give up too easy and that's not a new phenomenon. Daragh O'Sea eluded to it, Com O'Rourke said it, Micko in his first term identified it too we used to sh*t our pants anytime we met Dublin prior to '96.
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lillyboy
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:05 am

my bad so I did read it wrong
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:12 am

I don't know what people want, one or two of our own senior clubs get hammered here if they 'play hard' and win games. Shocked Shocked Shocked
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:49 am

Stonecold is spot on, and you have to take his comments on the minors in the context they were intended. I called the senior team "spineless" after the Dublin game and was lambasted from a height on here for daring to question the character of the players. Funny how it's now in vogue to do so and the rest of the country is doing the same. It just seems too easy to give up and throw your hands to heaven when you're a Kildare player. We need some of those players that Gaa1928 alludes to, particularly in the back line, although I take O'Se's point about some goals starting with balls kicked into their keeper. In the past we had Davy Dalton, Glen Ryan, Daryl Flynn and Brian Flanagan - we need a couple of that ilk in defence to add some spine to this team. I'm not close enough to the club scene to know whether they are out there. Peter Kelly back in the full back line would help as well although he has played in some of the disasters over the years as well. Depressing times. We need a real leader of men on the sideline to weed out the wimps. There's not many McGuinness's or Horans around unfortunately. I'd say McGuinness would see it as a great challenge if he had the time though and the same with Horan. But can't see either being available.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:53 am

Gaa1928 wrote:
I don't know what people want, one or two of our own senior clubs get hammered here if they 'play hard' and win games. Shocked Shocked Shocked

That's just inter-club rivalry. If you were around for the Laois game in 1997 you'll know how the Kildare supporters would get behind a team clearly playing for the pride of the jersey and themselves. Remains the bravest performance from a Kildare team I have seen. Wish there was footage of that knocking around that could be shown to the squad.
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moatesports
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:23 am

minors an hour away from top game in yonks and people want to take them on its support thats needed
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:52 am


Lads, what struck me about Jason Ryan when he took over was how he downplayed Kildare.  He said expectations were very high for a county with very little pedigree.  I think this seeped into the players' minds and left them lacking in confidence over the two years.

On the contrary, I felt Micko and McGeeney genuinely believed in us which is why we came close in 1998 and 2010.

Sounds simplistic but I think we need a man who genuinely believes we belong at the top table, doesn't matter whether he comes from inside or outside the county.  Give the players that belief and they will respond.  We have the talent coming through - no more of this division three mentality !!!
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milltownmary
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:22 am

Major sponsors are looking for tv coverage and large tracts of printed media. Playing in div 3 we won't be getting either. The majority of teams in div 3 are from hurling counties so average gates are less than 500. With a debt of nearly 300k to be serviced, money for quality coaches is not going to be there. The finance committee of the county board have shown nothing but egotistic elitism in their failed fund raising efforts. The infamous 1000 club was a mitigated disaster as is the bucket collection. The country show in conleths park should have been huge but was half arsed at best. They forget about the small guy and his couple of euro but molly colly the big names in the hope of a few quid and its continually failed. 5000 people in the county would surely buy a draw ticket for 20 euro rather than a couple of hundred spending 100 euros and splitting it in 2. That alone would more then match any sponsor we can hope to attract..... On the field iv a feeling day trips to games in places like Milltown Malbay and. Killmalock can lead to disinterested supporters. What we need is a clear out of this squad and management, 2 massive capitulations alongside 2 relegations provides enough evidence of the lack of bottle in this group. In div 3 and the o byrne cup we can play the quality players from this group and the up and coming players from the u21s and minors. Give them 3 to 4 years to get back to div 1 and possible Leinster glory. I know id travel to look at new players trying to make the break through than watch that bunch of bottlers again.
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tpos
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:40 am

On the contrary, I felt Micko and McGeeney genuinely believed in us which is why we came close in 1998 and 2010.
Cant see Micko and McGeeney being in the same class.
With Micko we won real championship games and titles and played Div 1, with McGeeney it was back door and Div 2.
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umpireonditch
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:02 pm

Reading a piece in this mornings Times with Conor McManus filled me with optimism. Their recent history is comparable to our own. Banty formed a band of brothers who would do whatever he told them to do and they believed he could set them towards the promised land. It was high energy stuff. When he left the players probably thought that this was their chance blown and then the thing went into free fall and his predecessor whom ever he was would find it next to near impossible to halt that slide! It had set in way before Eamon McEnaney took over. Bantys last game was us dickwhipping them. Like in Monaghan I'd suggest that the momentum Kildare gathered under McGeeney was in decline from the defeat to, ironically enough a Banty led Meath in 2012. Long before Ryan was even a selector. Bar a couple of decent early 2013 division one wins we never really set the world alight under him after that. Enter Ryan and mass retirements and exuduses. The poor chap was trying to stop a hurricane with a newspaper. Like succeeding Fergie or Micko in Kerry or Banty or Joe Kernan, players seem to find it hard to fully engage again. Fully trust. It's a subconcious thing I'd say. Monaghan post Banty. Successive relegations a and limp championship exists. Sound familiar??I think Ryan was probably a bit naive in his timing. Had he been a bit more ruthless he might have seen the writing on the wall and let someone take the post Geezer apocalypse. Say for instance O'Flaherta got it and this was the end of his 2 years.jason Ryan now would prob be up there with Cian O'Neill on our shortlist. county board need to do 2 things: involve the players in some way in he point net process. Empower them, make them have some ownership of it,that their neck is on the line again. Secondly the harder task, make sure he has the resources to prepare to the compete with the best. Monaghan got these two things right and look where the stand.
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White Bridge
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:34 am

Good post umpire and you mightn't be far off the mark!
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:18 pm

Umpire I'm confused. If Ryan is just the victim of circumstance as you seem to suggest why not just keep him on to complete the job? Fact is he created some of the hurricane factor with his own hot air.
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umpireonditch
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Crofter gist of my point was, it was a poisoned chalice for whomever succeded McGeeney. There was a natural dip due to players retiring etc aswell as existing players finding it hard to reach the same heights. In our blind loyalty and belief of McGeeney this has all been attributed to Ryan. Not entirely Ryans fault excpet that he didnt see it coming!!
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:26 pm

Don't agree there umpire. you could maybe say that for the first year as he came to grips with the fallout of the "vote" , but he has no excuses this year. He knew what he had to do and lets be honest he failed badly. Relegation, followed by two of the biggest drubbings the County has ever taken in the space of a month
Every team gets a beating now and again, but if you see players trying and a manager who has a vision on how to play the game then you can just about put up with it.

For me Ryan never had a game plan, I ask anybody here to tell me how he wants the team to play because I can't fathom it out.
I said two years ago the job to get was the job after the next man because there was too much baggage. Unfortunately I have been proved right, there is a team and a decent team at that in Kildare football but Ryan is not the man to find it.

I was on the fence about his future but this last five of months bar the Cork win has been a disaster. He needs to be replaced, there is plenty of good in the County, the next man if he knows what he wants and how to get it could do quite well.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:14 am

umpireonditch wrote:
Crofter gist of my point was, it was a poisoned chalice for whomever succeded McGeeney. There was a natural dip due to players retiring etc aswell as existing players finding it hard to reach the same heights. In our blind loyalty and belief of McGeeney this has all been attributed to Ryan. Not entirely Ryans fault excpet that he didnt see it coming!!

I think the right manager could have arrested the dip. If ever a team were "due" a dip I would have thought it was the Mayo team after last year's latest heartbreak and losing the man who brought them so close to the top - James Horan. But no, with a new management team they've managed to put all that aside and potentially are back better than ever (although I still think Dubs will beat them).
Ryan seemed to accept mediocrity from day 1 and it looks like some of our supporters have done the same.
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:43 am

Mayo have lost no players Crofter. You refuse to allow for that, no matter how many times they're listed out for you. If Mayo had lost seven or eight starters, then lost two of their best young lads to AFL, do you think they'd be as good?Ryan's tenure has not been good enough on balance. If we can line up a good replacement then we should change manager. But pretending it wasn't a difficult job is unreasonable. You can't replace two thirds of a seasoned team with club players and 21 year olds and expect everything to run smoothly.
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umpireonditch
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:45 am

ah in fairness Crofter, who have mayo played so far? Donegal were out on their feet early doors last Saturday. They haven't really been tested so far. Plus there team and leaders are a lot younger now than say McGeeneys was after Donegal loss in 2011!
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:37 am

Interesting discussion involving two serious men. And Senan Connell unfortunately.

http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30553/9942839/sky-sports-gaa-panel-discuss-how-to-help-smaller-counties
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jj
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:02 am

Ogie wrote:
Interesting discussion involving two serious men. And Senan Connell unfortunately.

http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30553/9942839/sky-sports-gaa-panel-discuss-how-to-help-smaller-counties

Senan Connell .... the Paul Merson of SKY GAA coverage
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:04 am

Senan is something else.. Cool
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:13 pm

That's one way to describe him. In fairness, he'd get away with it next to a lot of lads but when you have McGuinness and Canavan next to you, you're going to be exposed. I thought the two lads were on the money, pardon the pun.
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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:38 pm

Reading the Leader last night moving forward might be tougher than I thought if what Tommy Callaghan said was fact about the removal of the previous manger (yes I went there) is true as the same people are still there. If it is true Kildare will never move forward if Board members want to pick the teams and throw a strop when their clubmen don't get played.

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PostSubject: Re: How Do We Move Forward??   Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:19 am

It's a big claim to make and it seems odd that Tommy has only mentioned it now almost two years later (apologies if he has reported this claim before).

4 county board officers voted against retaining McGeeney. They were Martin Whyte (Treasurer - Kilcullen), Eddie Lawlor (Hurling Board Chairman - Athy), John Joe Walsh (Central Council Delegate - St Laurence's) and Mick Gorman (Leinster Council Delegate - St Laurence's).
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