Kildare Gaa Fans Forum

Kildare Gaa Fans Forum

Kildare Gaa, Football & Hurling Fans discussion board.
 
HomeHome  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 Kildare u21 2016

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
AuthorMessage
Rex
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 2186
Join date : 2010-01-31

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:02 pm

Pin High wrote:
Yet another disappointing outcome. It's difficult to be critical of people who put in hours of commitment to these teams and are clearly passionate but to be truly objective is important if things are to improve for the future. Reading this thread and having watched many games at underage level over last number of years there are a number of areas that need addressed.

1. We have had the same management/coaching structure involved at underage for many years and the type of development of teams and players has been therefore consistent. We have not succeeded in either developing quality defenders or ruthless attackers

2. The mental development has come up short on a number of occasions when it really matters

3. Our tactical decision making in big games is questionable

4. We constantly talk up players who have acheived very little and get them believing that you are better than you really are

It's time for a root and branch review of the underage development system. There are clearly some skill sets missing if the county is to get the best out of our young talent pool.

Don't agree here, yes there are a few things that could be done better. However we are the only County in Leinster, who can go toe to toe with Dublin and beat them.

The rest of Leinster would kill for our underage teams at the moment. You always have to remember we are fighting money and numbers. Those two things give Dublin such an advantage that we go into every game with them as major underdogs.

As for this poor Dublin team. Nonsense, watching the game they are a very Good side. It will be interesting to see how far they go. My guess would be at least to the final.

Ohtoo I have to say, what you see and what you hear on the radio are very different. Kildare were 9- 2 up after about 25 minutes. And still level with two minutes remaining in the first period of extra time. The chance at the end was guilt edged and even before that we had possession a number of times but failed to take advantage. There was very little in those teams apart from the goal in extra time.


Last edited by Rex on Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
SeamusMurphy
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 3130
Join date : 2011-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:04 pm

We beat dublin at minor by 10+ points in parnell park with the majority of player's on both sides yesterday the same.. they have no doubts improved,  although I still believe we were the better team.
Out of the 10 or so forwards yesterday, only 3 scored, and 15 of that tally came from Neil and Ben.. the bottom line is we hadn't enough scoring forwards.

Bookies had us as 4/5 favs.
Back to top Go down
lillyboy
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 768
Join date : 2011-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:07 pm

Fantastic game of football that narrowly slipped away. The bookies had the odds right as there was little or nothing between the teams. We finished stronger in normal time and extra time and if anything Dublin were the ones panicking. We had 3 great opportunities to win it in normal time but didn't convert and Dublin had 2 bad misses in the same time. As many have said we showed great heart and determination and while we might like to think that's a given unfortunately over the years it hasn't been.
Overall Bryan Murphy's tenure has seen a transformation in both performance and expectation's within the county. Are we doing enough as a county to give support to people like him in making the jump from annual contenders to winners? Probably not and yes I think there should be regular reviews of how we conduct our affairs but it has to be joined up thinking with long term planning and not knee jerk reactions
Back to top Go down
SeamusMurphy
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 3130
Join date : 2011-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:12 pm

Spot on lillyboy.
Nothing wrong with Mr rainbow's passion on the sideline.
Back to top Go down
Rex
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 2186
Join date : 2010-01-31

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:25 pm

Lastly on this, Neil Flynn has kicked 21 points in two games against Dublin, 21. If a Kerry player or any other County had a player doing that they would be regarded as one of the best talents in the Country.

Yet we feel guilty about bigging up our lads.
Back to top Go down
Bān go Lēir
Senior
Senior


Posts : 184
Join date : 2011-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:15 pm

I think is just about balance Rex, Neil Flynn should get his just reward for his efforts over past couple of years by been involved in senior set up this year. Lads develop at different stages and maybe we have a tendency to wish lads be at at more developed stage than they are. Yes some that played yesterday are "in my opinion" ready to go, others will just need more time.

Hard luck to all involved yesterday, it was a very exciting game. Were Dublin slightly fitter than us yesterday or did they use their subs smarter?, just thought they appeared to be getting to loose balls and getting out in front of our lads quicker.

Unfortunately its a sign of Leinster football also that yesterday was the first real match in the competition that both teams encountered. I thought that Westmeath team in the semi final were very poor and offered no real test.

We had numerous chances to wrap the game up, even before Sherrys effort, which was the right choice but just so unlucky. I thought in extra time when Duds went ahead we played into their hands they dropped a lot of lads deep, and we tried to run through them, but they smothered us. It probably just needed a little patience and shoot for points when the space was there.

Anyway, hopefully a line is drawn, we learn, move on and continue to develop.
Back to top Go down
Ois
Junior C
Junior C


Posts : 19
Join date : 2014-01-01

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:44 am

Good post, Ban go leir. The fact that we could have won it means we are at the required level at u-21, i.e top 6 or 7 in the country. Be interesting to see how far the dubs go in the competition.

In terms of drawing a line and moving on, I think it's crucial we produce a team of this quality every year instead of once every 3 or 4 years. For me, that's more important than actually winning a title.
Back to top Go down
TommyKeegan
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1517
Join date : 2010-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:50 am

Difference Ois is that we get this chance once every three or four years, Dubs get better at this grade every year. Thus they are topping up a near-full glass with professional training. Us? Well we know, it's why they are untouchable and we are competing with hurling counties.
Back to top Go down
if_in_doubt
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 660
Join date : 2010-02-04

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:06 am

Started brilliantly and were well on top for the opening 20 minutes. Defended well, broke at pace and played some very good passes into the forwards – looked like we were shooting for fun with almost everything going over.

Once Dublin got into it though they looked like they could score at will. Could have finished the half with 3 or 4 goals and they could have been out of sight at that point. It was a lot like watching the seniors at times, wide open through the middle, too happy to move the ball sideways and a lack of movement up front

As poorly as we played in the second half we still had chances to win it. Sherry did what we all would have done and tried to find the bottom corner, people were saying afterwards all he had that he to do was pop it over but it’s a lot easier said than done.

It’s a heart-breaking way to lose and you’d be hoping the lads aren’t going to be too cut up over it for long, but defeats like that can leave quite a few scars.

Guys like Mescal, Connell, McCormack and the 2 Flynn’s left everything they had on the pitch and a number of them were out on their feet for extra time, you can’t fault their effort or how they fought till the end.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard roar as much as lady sitting towards the town end of the stand, “get in around the goal” was just on a loop for the entire second half, the woman from Dublin a few rows in front who responded with “shut up the fuck and go back to the bingo” provided one of the highlights of my day.
Back to top Go down
Caprea
Senior
Senior


Posts : 182
Join date : 2013-07-15

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:49 pm

This is what a mate with a successful coaching background thought of Kildare's performance. Its extremely critical of management and players so i'm in two minds whether to post it. I'm not saying everything he says is right but his viewpoint is interesting..


Kildare's defeat today was a perfect example as to the county's low IQ around the game


3 years ago this team annihilated Dublin. Player for player much better players.

Today we saw a group who still played like an underage team and were dependent on being able to overpower and out run an opponent.

Dublin on the other hand were more limited on an individual basis but played to a structure which was based on the percentages of the game

Dublin's kick out strategy allowed them to get clean and productive ball whilst Kildare again played 1990's football. Kick it out and try and catch clean as part of a 50/50 struggle We had no philosophy around attack and just ran into a wall of Dublin defenders time and time again. They did used that turnover to mount attacks at speed which had a far greater return than our slow build ups.

Our decision maker at 6 was much to naive a player to take advantage of the fact that Dublin were playing defensively. He also couldn't kick and was laboured in possession. His positioning alone was enough to cost us the game.

We also brought on a sub called feely from athy and he had about 10 possessions of which he squandered about 9. Obviously Kildare were not accounting for this and kept him on the field. Taking him off would have been enough to turn the result.

Chris Healy was subbed with 10 to go in normal time. He was playing well but because no quick or diagonal ball was coming in he played out wide to drag him man out to create space for our running game. Instead of rewarding him for this we took him off.
We brought on 4 subs all of which weakened the team. It was sideline interference. We didn't have the depth to bring on subs. We were already carrying one or two lads including a centre back and a full back.
Our marquee forward Flynn from maynooth was in my mind both effective and also a major contributor to the defeat. Firstly he choose not to bring other players into the game and secondly whilst Chris made space for our running game he selfishly came into their paths for handy ball but in doing so destroyed any chances of goals or easy tap overs.

Our Goalkeeper lacked size (ball bounced over his head and over the bar), had no quick kick out game and his ability on the ball was v poor. Murphy has 12 months to fix this but choose to ignore it. An average goalkeeping performance would have been sufficient for us to win it

Kildare had bigger, fitter men but they are not been enabled to compete at this level due to improper and ancient coaching. Today had nothing to do with money or numbers. This was purely a coaching issue.
Kildare get celebrity banisteor types rather than real coaching talent. It continues to cost us.
Back to top Go down
HauntedGraffiti
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 963
Join date : 2013-01-12

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:56 pm

Some interesting points, although (1) Feely was taken off and (2) he is wrong about Shay Ryan - he had a stormer. He was clearly being instructed to play further up the field and not sweep, wasn't his fault. Keeper is a good shot stopper but kick out range was limited alright.

Agree that the defensive set was wrong and we were playing a 90s style. Britpop football you might call it.
Back to top Go down
Caprea
Senior
Senior


Posts : 182
Join date : 2013-07-15

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:10 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
Some interesting points, although (1) Feely was taken off and (2) he is wrong about Shay Ryan - he had a stormer. He was clearly being instructed to play further up the field and not sweep, wasn't his fault. Keeper is a good shot stopper but kick out range was limited alright.

Agree that the defensive set was wrong and we were playing a 90s style. Britpop football you might call it.

Feely was taken off in the last minute of extra time so i think you can still take his point. Keepers being good at stopping shots is in my own opinion the third most important skill they should have; first being effective accurate and quick kickouts, second being dominant under high balls and in the square.
Back to top Go down
lilysavage
Intercounty
Intercounty


Posts : 420
Join date : 2011-11-25

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:15 am

For me Connell was wasted out there...totally gassed and not able for extra time. Feely could have been moved to midfield. I agree re Healy, when we needed a point to win at end of normal time, he should have been on the pitch. A 0-9 0-2 lead in a 60 minute game shouldn't be overturned unless clear gulf between teams which theyre isn't. Maybe we lacked a bit of composure, on the line and on the field. Lets hope they learn from it.
Back to top Go down
lillyboy
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 768
Join date : 2011-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:19 am

The fact we won the match 3 years ago is irrelevant at this stage, both teams pressed up on kick outs forcing conventional kicking and i though this worked well for Kildare and it was only.
sounds a bit like Brolly ie hindsight annalysis with plenty of shock value claims
Back to top Go down
murof
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1048
Join date : 2010-07-05

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:27 am

Colm Keys in the Indo today summed it up neatly in his final paragraph when stating that Kildare will probably get more out of our team for the future but Dublin have the ability to win at all grades of to a fine art at this stage.
Hard enough to lose at any time but its depressing when we cant seem to get the best out of obviously talented players. Is Murphy capable of making his teams more clinical and clever? Or is there anyone else out there who is well qualified to help?
Back to top Go down
HauntedGraffiti
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 963
Join date : 2013-01-12

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:30 am

I was actually thinking about that over the weekend... Murphy is certainly the outstanding candidate for the job.

We do have a shortage of top coaches I would say. Dublin of course have a conveyor belt... It would be good if we could start streamlining from development squads on up, with coaches coming up through the ranks with each team.
Back to top Go down
Caprea
Senior
Senior


Posts : 182
Join date : 2013-07-15

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:34 am

Not sure if its irrevalent that we wiped the floor with Dublin in 2013.

Mayo won the connacht 2013 minor and now have won the under 21 beating roscommon in both finals. The final in ulster is the exact same teams in the minor final from 2013. Tipp got to the final in 2013 but think that's only because kerry and cork were on the same side of the draw.

Us losing to Dublin is the only significant turnaround in the whole championship.
Back to top Go down
Ohtoohtobe
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1043
Join date : 2010-07-03

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:44 am

(Deleted double post)


Last edited by Ohtoohtobe on Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:50 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
Ohtoohtobe
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1043
Join date : 2010-07-03

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:46 am

Caprea interesting post but I think your mate likes to go for shock value with his statements. Take the keeper as an example, from what I heard he kept us in it so to say he cost us the game is a bit much.

When there's a kick in it after about an hour and a half there's a hundred things that might have made the difference. For example if O'Callaghan kicked his frees accurately or Dublin took half their goal chances they would have won in normal time.

The players that your mate singles out have weaknesses, I'm sure, but no player is perfect, particularly not at this age. It's a bit harsh of him to slate them for what they did wrong without acknowledging what they did right. And I don't think anyone would suggest we had better players on the line. Another example, from the radio it did sound like Feely lost a bit of possession but I think it's a great sign of him that he had the balls to keep wanting to be involved and try to create and take scores. Better than a lad who hides and he has two more years at this level. I'm sure the players are intelligent enough to know what they have to work on and I think we should back them, particularly when their careers are just starting.

Interesting post nonetheless just offering a critique of it.
Back to top Go down
lillyboy
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 768
Join date : 2011-10-23

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:07 am

Irrelevant from the point of view that our team at least has several changes and probably Dublin to. We went on a goal spree that day and it was a great victory but not expected by that margin. Bookies had saturdays match 50/50 and so it proved.
Back to top Go down
SeamusMurphy
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 3130
Join date : 2011-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:25 am

Caprea wrote:
Not sure if its irrevalent that we wiped the floor with Dublin in 2013.

Mayo won the connacht 2013 minor  and now have won the under 21 beating roscommon in both finals. The final in ulster is the exact same teams in the minor final from 2013.  Tipp got to the final in 2013 but think that's only because kerry and cork were on the same side of the draw.

Us losing to Dublin is the only significant turnaround in the whole championship.

That's correct.

I can't understand why healy and also mcmonigle were takin off.. in fact I might have moved cian to the edge of the square where he can be very effective.
There were I reckon 7 personal or positional changes by my reckoning from the 2013 minor team.. and that's not including the subs, feeley, Malone and Kelly.
Back to top Go down
steviegenius
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 585
Join date : 2010-07-14

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:50 am

Just a note on Kickouts my own club have played two challenge games against teams from Dublin and I have to say the work they did on there own kickout was unreal the movement of players into positions to get on the ball nearly everytime no matter what we tried they won most of there kickout. What im saying because the Dubs are so good at this its filtering down to club level with all the teams and are so comfortable with it. At the moment you dont see any club teams in Kildare copying anything that our county team does I would like us to think outside the box sometimes and bring something new to the game to get us over the line like at the weekend.
Back to top Go down
umpireonditch
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 543
Join date : 2010-12-23

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:10 am

Feely had balls, wasn't working for him but he kept at it. Think as a lad just out of minor he was fairly slight in stature compared to most of the others. I would have kept him on even though it was very late when he got whipped off. Just after Connell who had an outstanding game got caught in possession in around the Dublin 21 yard line down to pure exhaustion I'd suggest. If that was Feely perhaps the power play he was attempting might have paid off.
Caprea I'd beg to differ with your mate on Healy, he was slower than his man and couldn't shake him off. I'd have been inclined to switch him with Cian Mc who may have proved more elusive. He was wasted out at wing forward I thought.
Shay Ryan won heaps of ball and worked like a Trojan but perhaps was a bit laboured on the ball. But again like Feely this lad is young and has the balls to keep at it. He never shied away from it. Experi McD will bring him on.
It's a sickner to lose.
Back to top Go down
SeamusMurphy
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 3130
Join date : 2011-09-27

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:29 am

The u21 competition is an excellent one. It's such a pity it has to be held at the worst time of the year conditions wise.

Just checked. 7 of the starting 15 were different from the 2013 team that defeated dublin at minor.. and 5 of the subs.. so in all its quite a bit different of a squad from that match.
Back to top Go down
if_in_doubt
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 660
Join date : 2010-02-04

PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:13 am

steviegenius wrote:
At the moment you dont see any club teams in Kildare copying anything that our county team does I would like us to think outside the box sometimes and bring something new to the game to get us over the line like at the weekend.

You could say the under 21's copied the seniors perfectly on Saturday. Wide open through the middle, ran down blind allies and into groups of Dublin players, gave away possession easily at time with hand passes and short range foot passes going straight to a blue jersey and an obsession with back and forth hand passing instead of somebody trying to take a shot when presented with a bit of space.

I don't see what relevance the win at minor level has to be honest, if that's the way people are thinking then we may as well just accept the fact Tipp will beat us at under 21 in 2 years time and move on.

The Dublin players went from that minor team into an already successful under 21 setup where the structure had been built up and established over a number of years. Ours went into an under 21 side that produced a huge amount of talent in 2013, changed manager and lost to Offaly at one point. Dublin have a winning culture at underage, Farrell and his coaches have been working consistently with these lads for a number of years - that familiarity can have big affect on young lads, especially when they're developing at different rates.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Kildare u21 2016   

Back to top Go down
 
Kildare u21 2016
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 15 of 16Go to page : Previous  1 ... 9 ... 14, 15, 16  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Kildare u21 2016
» minors 2015
» kildare club manager 2016
» Kildare Club Championship 2016
» 2016 Leinster Championship draws

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Kildare Gaa Fans Forum :: General Football Discussion-
Jump to: