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 Kildare v Offaly

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Flamingo
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:15 pm

Agree with OTB there you need the basic skills sorted first. Jim is also correct in his thinking that basic skills should be a given but these basic skills UNDER PRESSURE as he points are what separates players.
We have plenty of fine footballers, many who have a lot to learn at this level, so they will make mistakes. The other issue we have had is that when things go our way we can play great stuff, but if we take a few body blows it all falls to shite.
I see nothing wrong for now to just go 15 v 15 and let lads stand up and be counted against teams that we are supposed to be better than anyway. I'm sure there will be tweaks come the business end of the league but he is trying things out right now and still winning.
Come championship we will see a more defined type of play. But things like Feely playmaking and Dan Flynn breaking forward to great effect don't just happen by accident.
Niall Kelly getting on the ball as much as possible isn't all on him. Lads are pulling and moving others around to make the space for him too. Again this stuff isn't just a stroke of luck.
I know it's old-fashioned but right now with a young vibrant bunch of players I'm happy with don't have a big defensive game plan when we should want to just blast lads out of it
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Cilldara_2000
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:35 pm

jim wrote:
To be honest HG I don't give a fucking about your views on tactics. Jason Ryan was run out of town because he was tacticly inept and Cian O Neill was to be in some people's eyes a tactical genius. I point or observation is so far I haven't seen any tactics being used yes we have a few young lads brought into the panel who look like they could make the step up. So it's nothing personal against you HG  I hope your right that there's some master game plan being perfect in Hawkfield.  

Flamingo has pointed a few areas in which it is clear that there is some form of set up mandated by the manager. What other "tactics" do you want to see?

IMO, tactics, systems, game plans and all that palaver are overrated and, as OTB says, such talk usually means defensive tripe that sucks the joy out of the game. Personnel, motivation, skills, and fitness are far more important.
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Cilldara_2000 wrote:
jim wrote:
To be honest HG I don't give a fucking about your views on tactics. Jason Ryan was run out of town because he was tacticly inept and Cian O Neill was to be in some people's eyes a tactical genius. I point or observation is so far I haven't seen any tactics being used yes we have a few young lads brought into the panel who look like they could make the step up. So it's nothing personal against you HG  I hope your right that there's some master game plan being perfect in Hawkfield.  

Flamingo has pointed a few areas in which it is clear that there is some form of set up mandated by the manager. What other "tactics" do you want to see?

IMO, tactics, systems, game plans and all that palaver are overrated and, as OTB says, such talk usually means defensive tripe that sucks the joy out of the game. Personnel, motivation, skills, and fitness are far more important.

Spot on CD200, there are 5 key components to any athletic environment Technical, Mental, Physical, Tactical and Lifestyle. Tactics aren't always visible to the naked eye, if they were why is sports analysis such a thriving industry. Dropping 15 bodies behind the ball is an obvious visible tactic to everyone. Spotting who drops on kick-outs or pushes up, when to swarm the ball carrier when to kick a diagonal ball in, or play it short. This aren't obvious to the punter but they need to be obvious to the player. Already we have seen a shift on more emphasis on accurate foot passing into the inside line, now our inside line are struggling at times but that's what development is about and the technical side will improve them. I think you can't but sit back and be impressed with O'Neill so far. His next challenge is when we lose a game and how he and the team responds.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:11 pm

I agree Danny to a point there are many aspects to managing a team which you clearly and rightly point out. The same way as there is more than just still involved in making a good player even though most people would see a skillful play and a great player as being the same thing.
My question was on one aspect of of the 5 key component.,tactics. Which on observations I haven't seen yet. It's not a critism of the manager by any means he maybe working on it in training and will be ready for the championship. It was the one aspect of the new manager that excited me most. I had heard so much about him when he was appointed first that I was expecting to see something different. But well wait and see what happens. Just for the record we can't do any better than 2 wins from 2 so let's keep the going. Well done so far to all involved
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:23 pm

It was really interesting to see Mayo adopt a more defensive style against Dublin last weekend. They are obviously trying to cut out the goals which have killed them at key times.

I think they have the right idea and they did manage to keep them to a reasonable score and not concede goals. The part of the equation they fell down on was the transition from defence to attack, it was also where Westmeath were caught out last year. It's the most difficult part of the counter-attacking system.

If Mayo could improve that, they might be on a winner. I still wonder if they just lack that little bit of extra class in the forwards. Cillian O'Connor coming back is obviously a major help, but if they had another finisher and a top class playmaker (dare I say a Niall Kelly-style player, not that we're as good as Mayo etc etc), they'd be pretty much the complete package.
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:26 pm

You seem to be thriving for tactical innovation, it's two league games into year 1. He obviously feels our skill set needs up-skilling firstly and so does our decision making under pressure, that is all down to the technical and metal side. We need our players to know their roles, what's acceptable and not acceptable on the pitch. O'Neill needs to know what his players are capable off before implementing or changing tactical direction. Patience Jim patience.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:32 pm

OK Danny point taken. Let's move on.
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:33 pm

Didnt Donegal the first year under McGuinness only started playing really defensive against Antrim in the first round of the championship as some of the lads just said Cian o Neill will find out more about the lads during the league and after that he will probably come up with a system that suits the players at his disposal for the championship. He can chop and change a few things in the 3rd division as teams are weaker which will help in the long run hopefully.
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lillyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:42 pm

I think over time O Neill will strive to have Kildare capable of playing in more than one way or style, depending on the opposition, conditions etc much like Kerry were capable of in 2014. The key to that is probably educating and up skilling those players that are both willing and able to do so.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:45 pm

I would be slightly worried about Cian saying he wants us to become a kicking team.

Don't think our strengths are kicking the football, more a hard running game when you see what we have around the middle (Flynn, Moolick, Cribbens, Sherry). Haven't see anything of Feely yet but think he is meant to be an all rounder.

Kicking games depend largely on the ability of your inside forwards to win ball ahead of their markers. Don't think our FF line is top 10 in the country right now be it for winning ball or kicking points.

We'll see how it develops
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:07 am

I would be more optimistic I have to say.

Of the personnel available (presuming we have a full deck), my starting half-forward line would probably be Paul Cribben, Eoghan O'Flaherty and Dan Flynn (Moolick and Feely in midfield, with Niall Kelly in the corner). I think they're all good ball players and capable of hitting the inside men with good passes.

The kicking game also really comes alive when the ground hardens. It wouldn't surprise me if things really clicked in one of these games and we absolutely buried a team...
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Flamingo
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:02 am

I would hope our tactics weren't so obvious that they would be blindingly obvious to everyone. There has to be some nuance in them.
As I said some things don't just happen on the pitch, and when they happen repeatedly in a game then they are tactics despite not being clear as day to everyone.
How come Tomas O Se happened to pop up for so many scores with Kerry. Was it down to his ability? Yes to a certain degree, but it was also down to Kerry drifting play down one side and waiting for his late run into space the far side.
I may say this till I'm blue in the face but I don't want to see a defined defensive structure just yet as I am far happier we get our attacking play going first.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:50 am

I know its only a couple of games in and we are starting from a low base etc but I am more optimistic that I have been in at least 3 years. In a way, its a great division to be able to blood new talent, develop tactics, try things out etc.

Feely had a cracking debut and will do him the world of good. There were a lot of tired bodies out there at times weren't there? Im sure im not the only who was screaming "stop hopping the ball". There wasn't an inch of bounce in that week end surface.

Nice 3 week break now to try new things, get players back (Doyle etc) and focus on the many improvements that we will need to make over the next few months.

Cian has had some great strokes of luck (low starting point and expectations, players back from abroad, div 3 and championship draw) so far but you make your own luck and I think we have the right man in place. Happier times ahead please god.
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:05 am

I would rather have a general who was lucky than one who was good.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:37 am

If anyone isn't feeling that optimistic and needs a bit of cheering, check out the match reports from Meath's loss to Fermanagh.

All-purpose Mick O'Dowd post-match interview: "We prepared very well during the week and I don't know where that performance came from. However, we await the return of Conor Gillespie and Shane O'Rourke, who've been out injured since 2009."
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:51 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
If anyone isn't feeling that optimistic and needs a bit of cheering, check out the match reports from Meath's loss to Fermanagh.

All-purpose Mick O'Dowd post-match interview: "We prepared very well during the week and I don't know where that performance came from. However, we await the return of Conor Gillespie and Shane O'Rourke, who've been out injured since 2009."

lol! lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!

You've me stitches HG!!!!!
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:51 am

Was paul cribben injured last Sunday ?. He didn't appear to be.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:38 am

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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:02 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
O'Neill not happy about our first Championship game being moved:

http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/2016/02/10/oneill-blasts-decision-to-move-leinster-championship-game/

This is not good, shame on the county board if they didn't even consult the manager.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:43 pm

What!!!!! Our county board would never behave like this. I'd say they didn't even argue with Croke Park. I was expecting our PRO to be in the paper stating that this is a disgrace the way kildare have been treated. Oh wait.....we don't have a PRO. ....
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:35 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
O'Neill not happy about our first Championship game being moved:

http://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/2016/02/10/oneill-blasts-decision-to-move-leinster-championship-game/
Welcome back to Kildare GAA Cian, you've been gone a while.
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:39 pm

Paul Cribben is going for a small knee op sometime this week only be out for a couple of week AFAIK.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:29 am

Tommy Moolick came on for the last 5 minutes v UCC in the Sigerson Cup today. One small step but a very positive one.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:27 am

Surely he managed more than one step?
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Offaly   Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:50 pm

I heard it was more of a giant stride
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