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 SFLs Restructure for 2017

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Taibi
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PostSubject: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:38 am

I'm struggling to find any merit in this change.

There will be 4 divisions, 11 teams in Div 1, 2 and 3, and 10 in Div 4.

That means there's only going to be 10 league games, 5 less games.

A lot of teams will only play 3 championship games meaning some teams will only play 13 games between league and championship. I haven't included the cups because no one cares about them, they're glorified challenge games played in muck.

More training and less games. Great!

Anyone else concerned at this? It seems to have gone under the radar since the inter-county season began.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:14 pm

Spot on friend. Don't see any sense at all.
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:54 pm

Possible Positives :

1.   It might eliminate the 3 midweek league games ( they are a pain ).

2.   If they push back the start of the pre season cup competitions and then the start of the leagues by 3 weeks at least the ground conditions would be a bit better.


Possible Negative's :

1.   Less games for the club players.

2.   League could be over before Kildare are finished in the championship thereby less chance to bring county players back 'into the fold' with there club team prior to the club championship.

3.   With an uneven number of teams in the some divisions it means one team won't be playing each weekend.

4.   The current rules states that the last 2 games in each division have to be played at the same time to avoid any possible ' conflicts of interest ' in results that may effect other teams, particularly with regards to promotion and relegation -  this won't be the case now as one team in each division won't be involved in the last round of game.

This decision and the possibility of the 1st round of this years club championships taking place the week after Kildare's Leinster match points to a major backward step in relation to club players at a time when we were led to believe that things were going to improve on that subject.
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Taibi
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:48 am

It smacks of making room on the calendar to accommodate the various county set ups. Players want to play games, end of. Instead they're going to get more training instead of competitive football games. 13 games is not enough action in a season that lasts for 8-9 months.

The mid-week games were never a problem before so I'm not sure why they've decided to remove them now. Players will have to train during the week anyway.

The only people this change benefits is managers getting paid per training session.

The muppets in the CB could do worse than to have each captain from every club in a room and ask their opinion. I'm pretty sure this ridiculous restructure wouldn't have happened if they did.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:53 am

Tailing while I'm in agreeance with you it was the clubs who voted in the CB so it's very hard to complain about it now.
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:25 am

Taibi wrote:
It smacks of making room on the calendar to accommodate the various county set ups. Players want to play games, end of. Instead they're going to get more training instead of competitive football games. 13 games is not enough action in a season that lasts for 8-9 months.

The mid-week games were never a problem before so I'm not sure why they've decided to remove them now. Players will have to train during the week anyway.

The only people this change benefits is managers getting paid per training session.

The muppets in the CB could do worse than to have each captain from every club in a room and ask their opinion. I'm pretty sure this ridiculous restructure wouldn't have happened if they did.

Taibi I don't know anymore then anyone else, I am just stating what I think. On the midweek matches I am just saying that sometimes its hard to get a full team to various locations around the county on time for matches.
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smokey
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:09 am

Lads each club was invited to bring 3 reps to a meeting in Hawkfield (I know cause I was asked to go). The proposals were put up on display along with copies to bring away for discussion in each club. A good discussion took place and any amendments were to be brought back after discussion at the club meetings. AFAIK only about 5 submissions came back of which I think 2 were adopted.

The reason given for lower numbers in each division were several, most notably after round 12 most teams couldn't be relegated or wouldn't be involved at the business end therefore games with no real intensity. It is the intention to leave bank holidays free of league matches.

The players rep on each club committee should have attended their club meeting and raised any objections.
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kelf
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:29 am

Taibi wrote:
have each captain from every club in a room and ask their opinion. I'm pretty sure this ridiculous restructure wouldn't have happened if they did.

The muppetts in the CB are ONE PERSON FROM EVERY CLUB that the club members elect at their Club AGM............... So who are the muppetts !!!!! Nothing to stop the captain being the CB Delegate from the Club.............. I was for 5/6 years while playing............
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Taibi
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:46 am

smokey wrote:

The reason given for lower numbers in each division were several, most notably after round 12 most teams couldn't be relegated or wouldn't  be involved at the business end therefore games with no real intensity. It is the intention to leave bank holidays free of league matches.

What if Kildare get to an All-Ireland QF or SF? What then? Club players will be sitting around in the height of Summer twiddling their thumbs, while here we are in February with games galore in the rain and muck. It just does not make sense. It will end in a scenario where teams will have to organise a huge amount of challenge matches to prepare for the club championship.

Each team in Division 3 had 16 games last year, next year they'll have 9. Almost halved!

Bank holidays were always free of games, and rightly so.

You also have the financial aspect, less games means less money at the gates.

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smokey
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:44 am

Go easy Taibi I'm only stated what happened last year. You're wrong about div 3, this year has 11 teams and league will be split after 11 rounds so each team will get min 15 games.
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Taibi
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:31 am

Not having a go at you, smokey. The reasoning from the CB which you stated is what I have a problem with.

I was talking about last year's Division 3. 9 teams playing each other twice. So, 2015 - 16 games, 2016 - 15 games and (Division 4) 2017 - 9 games. That's a massive drop, an extra 6 free weekends!

The SFLs are fine the way they are. This is change for the sake of it. I can't see it ending well, I predict there will be uproar when this is actually in effect next Summer.
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topcat
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:45 pm

I see the 2016 league fixtures have been released with the majority of games being fixed for Sunday at 6 o clock. Who in their right mind thinks that that is a good time for a game. Any player I talk to around the county hates seeing games being fixed for that time. They don't like the idea of playing games on a Sunday in the first place but fixing them for Sunday evening leaves the players essentially without a weekend. If games have to be played on Sunday's I see no reason why it can't be Sunday mornings. Rant Over!!!!!
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:03 pm

Sunday evening at 6 you have to be joking. Hopefully the clubs won't just except this from the CB. Like I know there is no time that will suit everyone but thats just madness. I'd safely say 7pm on a Wednesday morning would suit club players better.
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lillyboy
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:48 pm

I never liked league matches on a Saturday, it's a pain trying to get time off. I know nowadays midweek can be awkward with college but it made championship Sunday seem all the more special. Match Tuesday, train Thursday, blow the cobwebs out early Sunday morning and the rest of the day free. More innocent times I suppose
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:27 pm

Club players and remember you are talkin about players from top 3 divisions including Senior / Intermediate and Junior the majority would prefer Saturday evenings at 6 which would leave their Sat night and Sundays free for recovery / hangover / family time etc.
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:56 pm

Will it still be top two into final?
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e.s.b.
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:47 am

For 2017 I think the new arrangement is 12 teams in div 1 which will be 11 league games plus semi finals and final. This would be down from 15 league games currently for Div 1 which is the biggest reduction.

For Divs. 2, & 3 (10 teams) & Div. 4 (11 teams) the leagues will split into top half and bottom half after full round played , will be 9+4 = 13 league games, compared to 15 currently for div 2 & 16 currently for div 3,

It will make the divisions more competitive as currently there is a big gap between top and bottom of both Divs. 1 & 2, there will be a shield competition for the bottom halves of Divs. 2, 3 & 4, so I think this has merit and will give everyone something to pay for.
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ixus
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:32 am

It didn't go under the radar Taibi. I started a thread in July on similar suggestions before, a second thread was started months back in October (which you contributed to in similar fashion) when these plans were put forward. I had nothing to do with it myself but, it is obvious how bad the Divisions are at the moment.

Basically, it comes down to, a reduced number of competitive games are better than multiple uncompetitive games. I would be for more competitive games, running a smaller Div 1 home & away andthe other Divs splitting mid season as the tables fill out.

As a refresher, look at the stats:

My original suggestion was something different: http://kildaregaa.boardonly.com/t1445-restructure-senior-leagues

The stats:
ixus wrote:

I just looked at the results of Div 1 for the gap. Of the 60 games (6 lower teams versus the other 10), here's the results.

Played 60
Won 7  Drew 4 Lost 49
(And 3 of these wins came in round 1 when the cobwebs are still there)

The margin of defeat:

13 Losses 1-4 points
14 Losses 5-7 points
22 Losses 8+ points

You will find a similar gap between the teams in Div 2. The point is there's too big a gap between teams in a league of 16. Smaller leagues would/should create greater competition throughout a season. I also think it would improve the standard of football. If you moved up from Div 2 or 3, you would be much better prepared to stay in the next division.

ixus wrote:
........
I've also asked, would the standards of football improve and the competitiveness improve. That's the only reason I'm making the proposal.

To counter your suggestion that Div 2 was competitive. I've taken the results of the top 4 teams aginst the other 12 (as they would have moved into a different tier as in the opening post). Here are their results:

Played 48
Won 38
Drew 4
Lost 6

Margins:
9 Wins 1-4 points
8 Wins 5-7 points
21 Wins 8+ points (can only blame Robertstown for 4 of them)

This is broadly similar to the Div 1 results of the bottom 6 against top 10.

In both current Div 1 & 2. The higher ranked team had an 80% win rate, circa 40% by 8 points or more. The lower ranked team had approx a 10% chance of getting a point from the game. Not competitve.

Leaving Div 1 aside. Do you not think the Div 2 & 3 leagues would be ferociously competitive?
I couldn't guess with any accuracy who would be in the top or bottom 2/3 of the proposed Div 2. The Div 3 would be a tough call too.
I'd say we could all have a fairly good stab at who will be involved in the top 2/3 in the present Div 2 for next year.
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Taibi
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:59 am

I take your point, ixus. However, I don't agree with it.

There will always be the odd heavy beating with teams sometimes missing a few key players, it's the nature of club football.

My own club played in Division 2 last year after promotion from Division 3 in 2014. We finished comfortably in mid-table after beating a senior team in Maynooth and only losing to table toppers Larries by 3 and Raheens by 1.

It's good to test yourself against the big teams in the county every now and then. This change won't make that possible anymore.

There's a lot wrong with the way club football is treated in this county but the SFL structures weren't one of them. From looking at the fixtures on the website, it seems the CB in their infinite wisdom have fixed 90% of games on Sundays. That's a more pressing issue.
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Celbridgelad
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:19 am

I personally don't agree with the new format as again it's the club player losing out again. With 4/5 teams being relegated which clubs do we think are at risk? My own opinion is clane Monastraven JTB( only cause they have so many involved in the county setup) Leixlip allenwood towers are at risk.
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Celbridgelad
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:20 am

Add raheens and catledermot to that list
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ixus
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:03 pm

CelbridgeLad - What's the risk? Relegation? Playing against teams at their true level?

I'd see it as a case of being less likely to take hidings. To play more competitive games against teams of similar standard. If you come top a competitive Division, you are better prepared for the next level. You could easily run Home & Away fixtures and still have a competitive league if the number of games became an issue after one season.

I can't find last year's final tables but, below is a sample I took last July. Answer these questions for me:

What do you think of the competitiveness of each of the Divisions?
Can you pick a clear top & bottom two of Div 2 & 3?
Do you think the top 2 & bottom 2 would be making a giant leap or fall should they be promoted or relegated in these divisions?

At present, following promotion or relegation the falls are huge IMHO. I think Div's 2 & 3 would be ferociously competitive.

Here's how the leagues would look based on current standings: (JULY 2015)

Div 1.

1 Sarsfields
2 Moorefield
3 Naas
4 Celbridge
5 Athy
6 Confey
7 Johnstownbridge
8 Carbury
9 Monasterevan
10 Clane


Div 2.

11 Round Towers
12 Allenwood
13 Castledermot
14 Leixlip
15 Kilcock
16 St Kevin's
17 St Laurence's
18 Raheens
19 Straffan
20 Maynooth

Div 3.

21 Rathangan
22 Ellistown
23 Ballymore Eustace
24 Kill
25 Two Mile House
26 Nurney
27 Eadestown
28 Clogherinkoe
29 Sallins GAA Club
30 Caragh

Div 4.

31 Robertstown
32 Suncroft GFC
33 Castlemitchell GFC
34 Ballyteague
35 Milltown
36 Rheban
37 Grangenolvan
38 Cappagh
39 Kilcullen
40 Rathcoffey
41 Ballykelly
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Celbridgelad
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:15 am

Well my own club would be seen as a top 5 team, but il tell you know we had some very tough games last season against a few of the teams you put in div 2. If you asked the players, which should of been done (or the players rep should have attended the meetings) they'll want to play more games. Less games means more training.
Look at teams that have big panels, takes sash for example, theyve a very strong second team filled with young players, they could miss out on chances of playing in senior League if there are less games.
And from a spectators point of view, I like seeing how the different teams across the county are shaping up, as you may meet the come championship
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ixus
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PostSubject: Re: SFLs Restructure for 2017   Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:43 am

Early days yet, after 5/6 games, below is as it stands (& assuming higher team wins playoff). There'll be a lot of movement yet but you can see some teams have started the season with intent to get places. The bottom 4 in Div 1 will be down in the next couple of games if they don't get their act together. If you lose 6 from 6, you deserve that though. Kilcock and Maynooth have had two relatively poor starts and would want to get their act together to be certain of Div.2 football, never mind challenging for promotion.

Div.1
Moorefield
Celbridge
Athy
Leixlip
St Laurence's
Sarsfields
Confey
Naas
Raheens
Castledermot
Carbury
St.Kevins

Div.2
Clane
Round Towers
Johnstownbridge GAA
Monasterevan
Allenwood
Clogherinkoe
Kill
Ballyteague
Maynooth
Sallins GAA Club

Div.3
Straffan
Nurney
Ballymore Eustace
Two Mile House
Kilcock
Rathangan
Ellistown
Eadestown
Castlemitchell GFC
Milltown

Div.4
Suncroft GFC
Rheban
Rathcoffey
Kilcullen
Robertstown
Grangenolvan
Cappagh
Kildangan
Ballykelly
Ardclough
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