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 Kildare v Sligo

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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:15 pm

Simple terms the problem is that the players are not willing to put their bodies on the line which has been a massive problem in the last year or so of KMcG and JR's full stint, no one really leading by example like was said here Johnny Doyle had plenty of bad days for Kildare but he always gave 120% in body, soul and mind and he was always wrecked hobbling off after games. Not too many like that yet this year after a game. To me its a massive problem right down the line in Kildare and goes through the underage not sure how to rectify but we are too soft mentally.
When i came home Roscommon were on and the big difference with them is the workrate, are their players any more skilful than ours, don't think so, are they willing to put the body on the line for relative success -YES.
Also i like CO'N but i haven't heard as many cliches since Steve Staunton left the Ireland job, rekon someone will come up with the list soon!!!
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:42 pm

micky murphy wrote:
Simple terms the problem is that the players are not willing to put their bodies on the line which has been a massive problem in the last year or so of KMcG and JR's full stint, no one really leading by example like was said here Johnny Doyle had plenty of bad days for Kildare but he always gave 120% in body, soul and mind and he was always wrecked hobbling off after games. Not too many like that yet this year after a game. To me its a massive problem right down the line in Kildare and goes through the underage not sure how to rectify but we are too soft mentally.
When i came home Roscommon were on and the big difference with them is the workrate,  are their players any more skilful than ours, don't think so, are they willing to put the body on the line for relative success -YES.
Also i like CO'N but i haven't heard as many cliches since Steve Staunton left the Ireland job, rekon someone will come up with the list soon!!!

Agree 100% if you don't have that much all the tactics and game plans are no good.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:52 am

Spot on micky.. on that same game, Michael Murphy bursting his gut for the team.. love his attitude.
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Shergar
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:50 am

Below is a summary of the game time players have had during the league. Apologies for the rough and ready nature of it as well as any mistakes.

Player Starts Sub Total Minutes
David Hyland 5 0 5 375
Niall Kelly 5 0 5 375
Ollie Lyons 4 1 5 340
Cathal McNally 4 1 5 320
Cian O'Donoghue 3 2 5 318
Fergal Conway 5 0 5 309
Peter Kelly 4 1 5 301
Mark Donnellan 4 0 4 300
Kevin Feely 4 0 4 300
Eoghan O'Flatherty3 2 5 275
Eamonn Callaghan3 2 5 237
Daniel Flynn 3 0 3 225
John Byrne 2 3 5 212
Padraig O'Neill 2 3 5 159
Adam Tyrrell 3 0 3 155
Neil Flynn 2 0 2 141
Matty Byrne 2 1 3 127
Eoin Powderly 2 2 4 115
Fionn Dowling 2 0 2 115
Tommy Moolick 1 2 3 113
Paul Cribbin 2 0 2 112
Emmet Bolton 2 1 3 105
Alan Smith 1 2 3 104
Eanna O'Connor 1 2 3 97
Daryl Flynn 2 0 2 89
Ciaran Fitzpatrick 2 0 2 83
Tom Corley 1 0 1 75
Ryan Houlihan 1 0 1 54
Kevin Murnaghan 1 2 3 49
Mark Sherry 0 2 2 22
Liam Healy 0 0 0 0
Hugh McGrillan 0 0 0 0
Eoin Doyle 0 0 0 0
Keith Cribbin 0 0 0 0
Rob Kelly 0 0 0 0

In relation to the game itself, I thought Sligo played really well, even their own few supporters seemed surprised. They looked more like the team that beat Roscommon last year than the one that lost to Mayo. Rather than praising Carew and Roli, I'd be asking how did they manage to lose at home to Longford the week before. The nature of the league is that everyone has something to play for every time they play, promotion or relegation. Don't think many people thought we'd win all 7 games, it's just that we thought Westmeath or Tipp would be more likely to beat us first.

I don't mind them trying a different way of defending or making Hyland a sweeper and Conway a marking defender for a change. I don't mind them trying to press up the field though I wish they changed tack at half-time and dropped back to the 45 on Sligo's kickouts. I don't mind the long kick outs, if you have a height advantage at midfield, use it but with McIntyre competing well against Feely, Moolick should have been targeted more. I don't mind all the changes from one game to the next. Under the last two managements some players found it harder to get off the team than to get on it so I'm happy to see competition stimulated.

I'd be concerned about the overall pattern of play. O'Neill set out his stall to make us a more kicking team. At the start of the game, Feely, Byrne, O'Connor and Kelly looked up to try and pick out a pass. Problem a, with O'Neill and Callaghan up front you are not going to be blessed with movement. Problem b, most of the team aren't even lifting their heads up when they get the ball and so we revert to a hand-passing malaise. Like have Bolton and Lyons ever met a 5 yard lateral hand pass they didn't fancy? People get on Matty Byrne's back for an inaccurate foot pass or shot but I think fair play at least he tried it and I've more respect for him than some of his more experienced colleagues who ignore free colleagues 30 yards ahead of them for the safe 5 yard handpass.

The other thing that I'm surprised by is how relatively unfit we look. I can imagine O'Neill thinking about not wanting to peak too early but we should be better than this.

We now have a bit of adversity to face against a good group of footballers in Tipp. I'd expect a stronger team more akin to the first 2 rounds (without the under 21s) to take the field. Semple Stadium is a fine big pitch. No excuses for players and management not to show that lessons are being applied as well as learned.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:48 pm

Fair play shergar.. interesting point regarding fitness. We have struggled in the 2nd half in every game so far.
Again I ask what u21s are likely to feature and in what positions ??
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:06 pm

An interesting point on the fitness. What type of training are they doing? I would of thought that this was Cian s area of expertise and would of hoped to have seen a huge improvement from the last couple of years. There's no evidence of any improvements in fitness levels so far.
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:41 pm

Any time our county players come back to the club for a training session they always say that the training the club does is harder than the county maybe its just to give the club lads a lift or maybe its just harder.
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Flickmabean
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:49 am

Losing home games to most teams is unacceptable. Losing at home in Divison 3 to Sligo , conceding 2-15 at the same time is completely galling for me.

It's not always about the result, a one point loss in itself can tell very little. It's the manner in which you do it and the manner in which we done it Sunday is the most alarming for me.

Every team can have an "off" day whereby things do not go their way. If we are calling a spade a spade here, we have not played well this entire league campaign. Not over any great sustained period during any game. Every game we have allowed the opposition to stay in the match right up until the end, eventually your luck will run out. Because that's what has played a big part so far. Luck.

With the exception of Niall Kelly, no one else has really performed to an acceptable standard, let alone a high one. As was alluded to earlier by other posters, there was a going through the motions feel about Sunday without anyone ever flexing a muscle and putting in a shift. Being honest I was embarrassed walking out of St Conelths on Sunday, and for once it wasn't because of the state of our stadium.

You can hold your hands up when you are beaten by a better team and say "the better team won". There is absolutely no shame in losing to a team that is better than you, that have better players and you simply cannot match them. That is sport. It happens all the time.

There is shame and embarrassment - a lot of it I might add attached to being beaten at home by a team inferior to that of ours, beaten by mostly a lack of honest effort on the players part. Coaching , game plan and tackling all come into the mix too but if you are not honest with yourself, those around you and those in the stand who paid to come in and watch you do your best everything else is irrelevant. You will simply be swallowed up and spat out by a hungrier team.

I expect a response against Tipp from both the players and management on Saturday week. I won't hold my breath. We seem to lack a bit character and backbone as of late. Something that cannot be coached.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:09 am

steviegenius wrote:
Any time our county players come back to the club for a training session they always say that the training the club does is harder than the county maybe its just to give the club lads a lift or maybe its just harder.

That would be a stranger one indeed. Unless your club are putting in serious shifts.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:28 am

Flickmabean wrote:
Losing home games to most teams is unacceptable. Losing at home in Divison 3 to Sligo , conceding 2-15 at the same time is completely galling for me.

It's not always about the result, a one point loss in itself can tell very little. It's the manner in which you do it and the manner in which we done it Sunday is the most alarming for me.

Every team can have an "off" day whereby things do not go their way. If we are calling a spade a spade here, we have not played well this entire league campaign. Not over any great sustained period during any game. Every game we have allowed the opposition to stay in the match right up until the end, eventually your luck will run out. Because that's what has played a big part so far. Luck.

With the exception of Niall Kelly, no one else has really performed to an acceptable standard, let alone a high one. As was alluded to earlier by other posters, there was a going through the motions feel about Sunday without anyone ever flexing a muscle and putting in a shift. Being honest I was embarrassed walking out of St Conelths on Sunday, and for once it wasn't because of the state of our stadium.

You can hold your hands up when you are beaten by a better team and say "the better team won". There is absolutely no shame in losing to a team that is better than you, that have better players and you simply cannot match them. That is sport. It happens all the time.

There is shame and embarrassment - a lot of it I might add attached to being beaten at home by a team inferior to that of ours, beaten by mostly a lack of honest effort on the players part. Coaching , game plan and tackling all come into the mix too but if you are not honest with yourself, those around you and those in the stand who paid to come in and watch you do your best everything else is irrelevant. You will simply be swallowed up and spat out by a hungrier team.

I expect a response against Tipp from both the players and management on Saturday week. I won't hold my breath. We seem to lack a bit character and backbone as of late. Something that cannot be coached.

I agree with the vast majority of your post except for the point where you state we were beaten at home by a team inferior to outs. Why are Sligo inferior to us? We are in division 3 because thats the level we are at. (I know we like to put all the blame at Jason Ryans door) There seems to be an arrogance about us that we are better that them shite. Lets be honest there's a sense of entitlement about us. Its in a large sections of our supporters, its defiantly in some of our players too. Where's our humility? Do we think that 35 lads training in Kildare are better that 35 lads training in Sligo. I know our population would be far greater but you can only put 15 on the field at any one time.

We need to get back to basics and leave the ego's at home and start working hard for the cause. Hopefully Cian will be able to build a team that at the very least is not found wanting for effort.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:24 am

Not sure about the fitness, think more a matter of quality. If we don't look fit now I'd guess it's because of the heavy training we are doing ahead of summer. Didn't they train the morning before the Limerick game for instance?
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:42 am

I say a lot of clubs train as hard as a inter county team look at Celbridge at the moment i hear they are doing serious sessions and with the results against Carbury and Sarsfields they are flying at the mement.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:24 am

TommyKeegan wrote:
Not sure about the fitness, think more a matter of quality. If we don't look fit now I'd guess it's because of the heavy training we are doing ahead of summer. Didn't they train the morning before the Limerick game for instance?

No they didn't train the morning of the Limerick game. No team trains hard the morning or the day before a competitive game.  And by all accounts they are not training hard.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:56 pm

jim wrote:
TommyKeegan wrote:
Not sure about the fitness, think more a matter of quality. If we don't look fit now I'd guess it's because of the heavy training we are doing ahead of summer. Didn't they train the morning before the Limerick game for instance?

No they didn't train the morning of the Limerick game. No team trains hard the morning or the day before a competitive game.  And by all accounts they are not training hard.

Never said hard. KFM said there was a session the Saturday morning - that's 30 odd hours before. Loads of teams at this time of year have done in recent years.
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:00 pm

I thought Bolty, Conway, ONeill and Smithy could all have done with losing a couple of pounds...no harm I suppose. I assume plan is to peak fitness just the once in high summer as we were always going to get promoted.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Sligo   Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:06 pm

TommyKeegan wrote:
jim wrote:
TommyKeegan wrote:
Not sure about the fitness, think more a matter of quality. If we don't look fit now I'd guess it's because of the heavy training we are doing ahead of summer. Didn't they train the morning before the Limerick game for instance?

No they didn't train the morning of the Limerick game. No team trains hard the morning or the day before a competitive game.  And by all accounts they are not training hard.


Never said hard. KFM said there was a session the Saturday morning - that's 30 odd hours before. Loads of teams at this time of year have done in recent years.

Sorry Tommy you didnt say hard. maybe they players met for a chat and a kick around on the Saturday but they didn't have an official training session
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