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 Tackling or lack of.

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Rex
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PostSubject: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:10 am

We are not very good at this. In 2009 -2011 we might have been one of the best. How can lads forget or just not bother to do it correctly. 

How is it that it is not coached as a priority.

So many questions, not many answers.
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:04 am

On the evidence of the last couple of games, our tackling is behind that of other Division 3 teams. teams like Dublin are on a different planet to us when it comes to tackling. Paul Grimley and Aidan O'Rourke did good coaching during McGeeney's time but since they have left, obviously the coaching has not been good enough.

I think tackling is the biggest thing holding us back at the moment. If you are conceding easy scores through frees or players running down the middle then it erodes the confidence of the team. It's one thing not having the gifted forwards like other counties but it's hard to believe we can't make big improvements on our tackling and at least make us hard to beat.


Last edited by JohnnyC on Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:08 am

Defensively, it was absolutely dismaying today.

It actually wasn't an improvement on last year. If Sligo are cutting you up and scoring goals against you, then you can expect more humiliations against Kerry, Dublin, Mayo etc.
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topcat
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:34 am

I remember listening to Jason Ryan speak on this subject a couple of years ago and he said from watching club games in Kildare, he could see it was terrible and often a whole half would go back in a club game without one legitimate tackle being put in.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:54 pm

We don't seem to have a defensive game plan. We have plenty of lads behind the ball but not actually doing anything. Everyone seems to be just doing their own thing. Look at Ollie Lyons for example we all think he played well yesterday because he breaks at pace and is exciting on the ball but several times yesterday he attacked up the field and the ball broke down and he just walked back to his position. At one stage in the first half he was in our half forward line when the house was down and Sligo just took the point. I'm not having a go at Ollie it's just one example of how we get opened up so easy.
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Sam1928
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:21 pm

That was the thing that stood out yesterday. We were so weak in the tackle and sligo had the freedom of the park to run through us.

It was so bad at one stage a sligo fella was surrounded by 3 kildare players who were not laying a hand on him and the sligo fella had been stopped but on seeing nobody was bothering to tackle him he just starting running again and skipped between two of our lads to pop a point over. Happened in the left corner in the second half. Shocking stuff.
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:34 pm

Sam1928 wrote:
That was the thing that stood out yesterday. We were so weak in the tackle and sligo had the freedom of the park to run through us.

It was so bad at one stage a sligo fella was surrounded by 3 kildare players who were not laying a hand on him and the sligo fella had been stopped but on seeing nobody was bothering to tackle him he just starting running again and skipped between two of our lads to pop a point over. Happened in the left corner in the second half. Shocking stuff.
Yeah I remember that, he even had time to steady himself and hit it with the outside of his foot as the three lads in white were trying to figure out how he got by.

There is also a habit of Kildare players just running alongside his opponent. No tackle or hand in to delay the runner. Easy to play against us. When the likes of Glen were playing no one was coming down the middle if they wanted to remain in contact with their head. 

We're too nice, and have been for a long time.
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midfieldmaestro
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:36 pm

Agree - tackling was shocking yesterday.
Mayo, Donegal, Dublin etc. have mastered this now. They stop runners with strong tackles to break up momentum as soon as possible. Almost bear hug them to stop them from moving then surround them with tacklers to get the ball back. We seem to swing an arm or run alongside.

Other issue was we were very naive yesterday. Sligo played a blanket defense and we were too pedestrian which made it easy for them. We started pouring half backs and midfield players forward to break through and left huge spaces at the back. No shape to the defense at all. That's a recipe for disaster against better teams. Cian is going to have to get them to be alot more disciplined. I think at a minimum the centre back and one midfield player should hold their positions to stop runners early.
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Westside
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:40 pm

jim wrote:
We don't seem to have a defensive game plan. We have plenty of lads behind the ball but not actually doing anything. Everyone seems to be just doing their own thing. Look at Ollie Lyons for example  we all think he played well yesterday because he breaks at pace and is exciting on the ball but several times yesterday he attacked up the field and the ball broke down and he just walked back to his position. At one stage in the first half he was in our half forward line when the house was down and Sligo just took the point. I'm not having a go at Ollie it's just one example of how we get opened up so easy.

I think that's harsh Jim, there are a lot of games where Ollie is one on one man marking inside and i dont think it's any harm him attacking up the field I think he's told to do that. His man was taken off scoreless yesterday so I reckon he did his job defencsively
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:51 pm

We seem to have adopted that horrible zonal marking.
How many yellows did we pick up ?. I lost count tbh.
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:20 pm

At the moment, O'Neill is playing a high pressing, attacking game, as opposed to sweepers or an all-out blanket. Fair enough - it's also the approach I would take, and it's the one used by Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and, sometimes, Cork.

However, if you look at the way Dublin play it for example, Cian O'Sullivan drops back as a sweeper and someone like Bastick slots in at centre half. As far I could see yesterday, David Hyland was in the sweeping role - a position I've never seen him play before. Also, if there was any coordination happening between him and Moolick, it wasn't visible to me.

In addition, in that system, it depends on the players having excellent discipline and game intelligence, and knowing when to go and when they stay. Sligo were able to drag us all over the place and dictate the terms of engagement. And as has been said, when they ran at us, the tackling was lamentable.

O'Neill said afterwards that the problems are fixable but that is one major issue to sort out and it does not happen over night. Like everyone, I'm hoping for an improvement when unavailable players return, but the last couple of games have been pretty deflating tbh.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:01 pm

Westside I don't mean to be harsh on Ollie but it was just an example of lads doing good their own thing. There probably should have been someone covering him when he gets forward.
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:18 am

This all goes back to a simple question that Tommy Keegan pondered in the Sligo thread. Are we as good as we (fans and players alike) think we are.
There are far too many nice lads on that team who don't have a nasty edge. Flanno was often lambasted for a couple of wayward passes in games but Christ he put a hit in and threw himself into tackles.
Tackles are not all putting in clean hands but about stopping the man with your body which is something we simply don't do.
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:32 am

Not making excuses for anyone in terms of tackling but, God help us, with the level of abysmal refereeing seen yesterday and last week, I suspect some fellows were afraid to tackle for fear of a yellow or red. It seems the level of refereeing is about what you'd expect at an under-14 match. I genuinely thought yesterday's specimen was one of the worst yet. Watching the histrionic display, I was reminded of this: https://youtu.be/1FLBhUGWJLc
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:18 am

Sligo weren't afraid to tackle all the same
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:42 am

Jebus tomo. That looks the spit of a well known kildare referee. Evil or Very Mad
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:54 am

I'll just bump this thread. Can't believe the whole league has gone by and we still tackle like drunk sailors.

The last Clare point summed it all up. Slap,slap,slap, grab arm free in. Jesus it's depressing stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:22 am

As I said, some is coaching, some is set-up for sure and no enough has changed between last year and this in that regard. But much of it is the half-arsed and lazy attitude of players.
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:27 pm

None of our backs give a good shoulder. When, in recent times, have we seen a kildare back giving a hard legitimate hit??? I for one cannot remember. Goes without saying, if we shipped 2-17 to clare, god help us against better opposition..............
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:01 am

Some contrast in the intensity of tackling in the Tyrone versus Cavan game, in comparison to what we witnessed from Kildare last night.
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:33 am

The Tyrone and Cavan lads hunting in packs and tackling with their upper bodies. Our lads tackle with their open hands for some reason, slapping at players like women.
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:17 am

Just saw the last 15 mins of 1st half of Div 1 final. The tackling by Dublin was incredible as the continually stripped the ball of some of Kerry's top players. It's like watching a different game to yesterday.
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:14 am

Taibi wrote:
The Tyrone and Cavan lads hunting in packs and tackling with their upper bodies. Our lads tackle with their open hands for some reason, slapping at players like women.

Yes you need to put bodies on the line. Going nowhere with girlie slaps..
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:16 pm

kildare are playing like a basketball team no hits allowed , only using hands and arms  giving away soft frees in scoring zone clare carved out 4 clear goal chances  in first half alone and it was the same in the league except in the westmeath  game all the top teams would run through us
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PostSubject: Re: Tackling or lack of.   Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:20 am

The depth of analysis we get on the highlight shows, at half time or in the media is pretty poor. I appreciate we're an amateur sport but, it's what a lot of us want. Jim McGuinness articles were a great read.

The defense are not switched on and it's killing the team. Article in the Sunday Times the other week described Donal Og Cusack's duties for Clare. It was essentially, sorting the defense. The policy is no goals. That's difficult in hurling, and all but impossible against Kilkenny. But, if you bring that attitude to the game, it pays off.

Below are two interesting articles that describe how teams go about there business. Atletico don't have the same attacking talent as Barca or Real, yet, they are still a match for them throughout the season. Connacht have changed the way they play by channelling their aggression, upgrading their skill set massively and believing in themselves.

They defend deep – the fact they catch opponents offside only 0.7 times per match, comfortably the lowest rate in the big five leagues, suggests as much. They also pack the centre of the pitch, forcing teams to go wide. Yet there is something more. Simeone has created a spider’s web of a defence so drilled it knows precisely when to shut down passing lanes, squeeze space and strangle dangermen. wrote:

Connacht’s linespeed in the first half was particularly excellent, as they attacked Leinster without the ball. That thirst to hammer up hard off the line brought about a number of errors from the visitors, as in the case above. We see Aly Muldowney lead the line up in this instance, blitzing out of the line and leaving a shoulder in on out-half Ian Madigan to lay down another marker. Outside Muldowney, Denis Buckley and Quinn Roux follow suit, pressuring Ireland international Josh van der Flier into a knock-on that creates the kind of turnover situation that Connacht are always searching for. wrote:




How Diego Simeone’s Atlético Madrid defy the odds and gods
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/apr/24/diego-simeone-atletico-madrid

Analysis: Connacht continue to be the brightest light in Irish rugby
http://www.the42.ie/analysis-connacht-pat-lam-2-4-2-shape-2721781-Apr2016/
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