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 Leinster Championship 2016

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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:34 am

FearBan wrote:
Wow. Been a member here for years and just had to stop reading and posting because of the amount of utter bullsh1t that lads were going on about here but the posts by Dinny and ixus have given me hope.

ixus, excellent analysis, not getting involved in the personnel, a simple post aimed at giving insight and analysis and not about one up man ship. Same from Dinny, except he is talking a lot more about the philosophy and the progression of the team. Both posts probably seem at odds with each other but that is beside the point. It's as much about the process as it is about the answer. Very few have the answer. Jim McGuinness had it short term in his specific case. I'm not sure who else has had it over the last few years.

Even with the pragmatism shown, lads like Crofter have a pop. Grow up lads and start to see the wood from the trees. One management team, in one year, cannot turn us into a team to beat the Dublin monster and who knows if it is even possible over a longer term.

Looks to me like you stopped reading after 2 or 3 words of a post and then imagine what the rest said. Before you "have a pop" at a fellow poster maybe you should read their post properly. If you did you'd read the following:

"We have two games before we potentially meet Dublin and even when we lose that we'd likely meet another strong county in the last 12. I don't want to see us slaughtered again like against Dublin and Kerry last year."

No.. nothing there about "beating the Dublin monster".. quite the opposite in fact.
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ixus
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:02 am

Thanks for the compliments.

To clear up some things. I'm under no assumption of reaching Dublin game or, that we could beat them at present. The conversation just went there. As for the tactics, I think they fit for a lot of opposition. Simply trying to look at the same problem everyone else is and come up with an alternative idea. Why? Our defense is extremely porous and we lack a cutting edge for creating goal chances.

I think the one or two man full forward line rarely works anymore. Look how often Tomas O'Connor was isolated in around the square and breaking ball hopping off him or poorly delivered during recent seasons. The exact same for A O'Shea against Dublin. If there were two other forwards around him, I think that would have changed things for both the attack and defense. It might produce more scores and tie up an extra defender from breaking forward.

The top teams have a lethal half back line these days (Dubling & Mayo etc). Even look at what Clare did to Kildare from half back. Can you reduce that impact? Possibly, by actually giving them that space in the 45 area, you can reduce the impact. Let them close to the scoring zones and try and turn over the ball aggressively. Leaving them at least a man short in the half back line because they have four defending the full back line.

In respect to Dublin, The42.ie had a look at what Kerry tried to do. It looks like they had the wrong players deployed to fit the system. I'd argue that you'd be better off playing another corner back on say Brogan and leaving Mark O'Shea to sweep. Sheehan and Donaghy in a defensive line up is a weakness.

Analysis: Better defence, better movement, better decisions - it all added up for ruthless Dublin:
http://www.the42.ie/dublin-kerry-analysis-league-final-2734438-Apr2016/



@Caprea Hope gets you nowhere. Attitude gets you somewhere. Hoping that events outside our control can change a situation is "typical GAA stuff". I'd rather be constructive about how things can be changed/improved.

In respect to your comments about goals. I think they are redundant. Here's why. Dublin may only score 2/3 a game but they create 7/8 goal chances, and often 10 against Kildare. You have to deny them these opportunities. If you can achieve this, well, maybe they only get one goal in the game and not at a stage where it gives them & the Hill a huge boost. Dublin have a well earned superiority complex. They believe they will beat everyone. Taking time to score a goal against Monaghan or Westmeath doesn't bother them. If Monaghan could commit three men to their full forward line and not leave McManus poughing a lone furrow, it might change things. It did against Donegal. They lost it mentally.

Regarding the "Losing their heads" comments. Last year, McMahon and Cooper played over the edge in a number of games and got away with it. If you can score 2/3 goals against them, they will turn nasty fairly quickly. They do it when they're winning, nevermind under pressure. Cluxton had an absolute shambles of a game against Fermanagh. He lost the plot. Need to figure out what caused it and see can it be exploited.  

Look, you don't flick a switch and get things to happen, you plan a certain type of defense, get the team well drilled and believing in themsellves. Try and execute it to the best of the players ability. Then you can hope!
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:08 am

"Look, you don't flick a switch and get things to happen, you plan a certain type of defense, get the team well drilled and believing in themsellves. Try and execute it to the best of the players ability. Then you can hope!
Exactly, we can all agree on that but what worries most of us here I think is that there was absolutely no evidence of that happening in the latter stages of the league particularly in the final. We surely should have seen some improvement but we looked as bad as last year which is demoralising to say the least.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:03 pm

A lot of people only watch Dublin on TV but if you were there you would see that they are one of the most defensively set up teams out there, they constantly sit 2 lads back between the half and full back lines and that gave Kerry no outlet on Sunday when they looked up, the only reason that they don't get slated over it is that they are so fit that they attack in packs of 3 an create overlaps and their full forward line is strong enough to win their own ball.
But this is all created from a foundation of 3 in the full back line 2 sweepers and 3 half backs when the opposition is attacking.
I definitely taught that when a new management team came in they would have tried to implement this kind of system in Div 3 and try to blow teams out of the water but i am disappointed to say the least in that as i said previously i hoped we would get back to the 2nd best team in Leinster which hasn't happened so far for me
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Caprea
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:06 pm

If you don't allow Dublin to score goals they will kick points better than any team in Ireland in my view.

And saying you stop them scoring goals is easier said than done.
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ixus
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:42 pm

@Caprea That's fine so. We'll move on from that and get back to discussing Kildare. How to improve their defense and attack. If we get to play Dublin, we can kick the ball over the bar for them. Save their legs for a bigger team.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:12 am

My post was not a pop at any one post or any one individual. In fairness to you Crofter, I shouldn’t have named you. You’re not a culprit of what I am complaining about.

I stopped coming here for a long time because of the amount of posters who spent half the time telling everyone who wanted to hear that Kildare had a panel of world beaters and superstars who either a) didn’t have the right manager / direction or b) didn’t have the right attitude or bottle or intelligence to succeed. Win an O’Byrne cup game / league game / championship game and we were on track for an All Ireland. As soon as we lose, we’re the worst in the world, our manager is pathetic blah blah blah.


Nolan hadn’t a clue
Crofton was the answer / couldn’t hack it
McGeeney was the messiah / didn’t care / was going to deliver an All Ireland, was too interested in fitness / was all about Kildare football / was ruining club football
Ryan was the perfect fit / stabbed McGeeney in the back / was a great trainer / was a shite trainer / was a great interviewer / hadn’t a clue what he was talking about.


I get forums and understand that they are a cross roads of minds and passions and discussion but when the same people started flip flopping like the wind, I felt it was time to go. I hoped back on from time to time, maybe before a big game or over the winter just to get the vibe or buzz but it was always the same tripe.

The abuse some of the players, and a certain few in particular got and get is completely ridiculous. The same can be said of the treatment that Jason Ryan got. Some of the comments I read here were a disgrace.

This time I logged on because, I, like everyone else was disappointed by, not just the league final, but the league itself. As usual, there was the OTT stuff that always happens. I felt the need to comment because I thought the stuff ixus and Dinny were talking about made sense. As I said, I don’t necessarily agree with the premise or the reason but it was sensible, well thought out, not just individual bashing.

I fully respect the right of everyone else to comment and discuss. I simply didn’t like what I was reading so I stopped reading.

I, like most of you, am passionate about football and hurling in Kildare. I live and breathe the games and set holidays and plans around them. It’s the passion of the games that attracts me to them. I don't care if someone comes on here convinced we can beat Dublin / Kerry / Mayo in the morning, just don't come on here the day after loosing telling us they knew all along we wouldn't do it or that it's X, Y or Z's fault when they don't have a clue. Thats the rubbish that some lads feel comfortable pedalling and I have grown to loath it. As I said, everyone to their own, I just felt the need to complement two posters.
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Botch
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Wed May 04, 2016 10:28 pm

Like it or loath it Dublin are the team to beat and at the moment we have no chance no matter what way we set up. We are on a par with all other Leinster teams. The only thing I hope for is that after seeing Leicester win the premiership maybe miracles can happen Smile
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johnsmyth
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Thu May 05, 2016 4:18 am

If all teams were at the same level of professionalism, perhaps a Leicester type occurrence is possible, but it's wrong to ignore that Dublin have an incredible resource advantage.

1 Professional team and 10 amateur teams, that's the leinster football championship, the most ridiculous competition ever, and each year we get the same nonsense of how it means so much to the Dubs, and it's up to all other teams to come up to the mark.
1.5 million development funds go to Dublin, while Kildare will get the same 40 odd thousand as Carlow. Population wise that doesn't even come close to adding up.
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Thu May 05, 2016 4:55 am

How many do you think will turn up to the Leinster final whoever gets there. Remember when it would be sold out pre Croke park redevelopment or 75,000 turning after.
If they get 35,000 this year I would be surprised. Who's going to spend 40 or 50 euro a ticket to see their County beaten badly and having to listen to the soccer mob mentality on the terrace.

Until the attendances hit the GAA in the bank account nothing will be done about the football funding inequality in Leinster.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Thu May 05, 2016 6:00 am

Rex wrote:
How many do you think will turn up to the Leinster final whoever gets there. Remember when it would be sold out pre Croke park redevelopment or 75,000 turning after.
If they get 35,000 this year I would be surprised. Who's going to spend 40 or 50 euro a ticket to see their County beaten badly and having to listen to the soccer mob mentality on the terrace.

Until the attendances hit the GAA in the bank account nothing will be done about the football funding inequality in Leinster.

Totally agree Rex. Not so long ago the double-header semi's and the final would both be 60k and well beyond. And it's not just the non-Dublin supporters not showing up. I have heard a lot of Dublin work colleagues discussing not going to Leinster championship games due to non-competitive nature of the games involving Dublin. When the bums on seats decline drastically (and they have already) the GAA will have to sit up and take notice. And it's not just the ticket sales it's also the food/drink sales that are hit. However, the funding inequality is so entrenched at this stage it will take quite a while to reverse and to have any meaningful impact.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Fri May 06, 2016 7:23 pm

To win leinster. .
Dublin 1/16. Kildare 14/1. Meath 16/1.
Never saw it this lobsided.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Mon May 09, 2016 8:19 am

in my humble opinion progression would be a leinster final and blooding several under 21 players and do the same same next year kildare seem to be next in line to the dubs at under age at the moment so if we keep knocking on the door it will happen
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Mon May 09, 2016 11:40 pm

Only 3 under 21s on the panel unless I'm mistaken (Houli, Healy, Flynn) so we won't be blooding too many.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Tue May 10, 2016 12:21 am

Crofter wrote:
Only 3 under 21s on the panel unless I'm mistaken (Houli, Healy, Flynn) so we won't be blooding too many.

Yes, and I doubt we'll see to much of Houli or healy. . I still don't get the omission of Ben mac.. why was he even brought in if he wasn't going to be given a chance.. I'd certainly have him ahead of some on that list .
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Tue May 10, 2016 3:18 am

€2.5m in development funds to be exact, there's the GAA funding and a special €1m a year grant given to Dublin via the Irish Sports Council which is essentially tax payer's money.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Tue May 10, 2016 9:48 am

Yes and they having been getting that for at least 5 years. It's not that they wouldn't be great withou it but why continue the unequal funding? I thought your short interview with M Cooper and P canavan was very good. They just don't want to discuss it. And your probably considered as begrudging them in some way, well if they'd only discuss it, they'd know you don't. It's a great credit to those working with our development squads that we are doing better than the rest of Leinster, wouldn't it be nice if they were afforded a little more in the way of monetary support.
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ixus
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Sun May 22, 2016 12:40 am

Looks like Jim agrees with my tactics. I'll take that!

http://www.the42.ie/jim-mcguinness-joe-brolly-dublin-2781184-May2016/
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Sun May 29, 2016 11:43 am

If kdare bring on three players every year for next few years we will be contenders
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:14 am

I know it doesn't effect Kildare ( on this occasion anyway ) but I thought the whole idea of dividing the qualifiers into groups of 'A' & 'B' was to ensure that every county got at least 2 weeks between games.   Now after waiting for months to play championship football the losers of the Meath/Louth next Sunday have to travel to Derry 6 days later.  This combined with fixing the Laois/ Armagh clash against the Ireland Euro match, talking to a few Laois lads in work, not happy. Dear oh dear, is this the best the GAA can do. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:14 am

Interesting read. tommy callaghan interview with cian o Neill in the leader today.. looking like we'll be at full strength against the biffos.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:32 pm

SeamusMurphy wrote:
Interesting read. tommy callaghan interview with cian o Neill in the leader today.. looking like we'll be at full strength against the biffos.

Any links and not a doubt in world it'll be Westmeath (unfortunately given choice).
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:20 pm

TommyKeegan wrote:
SeamusMurphy wrote:
Interesting read. tommy callaghan interview with cian o Neill in the leader today.. looking like we'll be at full strength against the biffos.

Any links and not a doubt in world it'll be Westmeath (unfortunately given choice).

I would think there's a very big doubt in the world, bookies have Westmeath 4/6, Offaly 6/4. I'd rather play Westmeath meself.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:18 pm

Oh yeah OTB, that's why I put the biffos and not WM... I'd be far more fearful of an offaly on the "up" than a downward spiraling WM.. hope I'm so wrong, and mulingar is worth 10 points to WM.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Championship 2016   Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:43 am

Something to bring back a few memories. Micko and others on KFM celebrating his birthday.

http://kildaretoday.podomatic.com/entry/2016-06-10T07_39_18-07_00
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