Kildare Gaa Fans Forum

Kildare Gaa Fans Forum

Kildare Gaa, Football & Hurling Fans discussion board.
 
HomeRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 kildare v Wexford

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
AuthorMessage
jim
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 583
Join date : 2011-01-05

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 9:48 am

Man up not just meant for Cribben . If he's injured he shouldn't be there simple as that. No place for an injured player in the pitch. I don't agree btw. That he's been our best player.
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 9:54 am

Only one close for me has been Niall Kelly in last 2 years. But hasn't played so much. I don't believe Cribbin was injured. Collectively a few of our lads looked very heavy legged - Moolick and Feely don't seem to have legs at the moment either. Cribbin was just the poorest of them and struggled at centre forward with little support. No one seemed to have the energy for running off the shoulder from midfield up. Was quite strange as you'd think training would have been geared towards today.
Back to top Go down
JohnnyC
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 691
Join date : 2011-06-28

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 9:58 am

Good job our friend Noel Mooney wasn't reffing today - otherwise we would have conceded a lot more frees. Rory Hickey showed a bit of cop on and let it flow a bit. We hardly win any frees ourselves because we hardly ever take on our men. We just crab across the pitch and either the move breaks down or we take a Hail Mary shot from 45 yards that usually go miles wide.

Bit surprised Cathal McNally doesn't seem to get a look in these days. His shooting might not be the best but he has a good engine and I think he would be suited to the defend deep/break quickly(?) game we seem to be trying to play.
Back to top Go down
jim
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 583
Join date : 2011-01-05

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 9:59 am

I shouldn't single out Paul Cribben or any player so i apologise. I know the players and management are more disappointed then we the supporters are. But its hard not to get frustrated and it's as much at the supporters maybe then anything else. We also have an excuse. McGeeney was trying to turn us into Armagh. Jason Ryan hasn't a clue..... if only Kevin Feeley wasn't playing soccer. Sean Hurley and Paddy Brophy are terrible loses ,Paul Cribben was injured ....excuses after excuse. Anyways that me over and done with. Sorry but I'm totally frustrated at the moment and again i should single out any player so apologise again...
Back to top Go down
ixus
Intermediate
Intermediate


Posts : 63
Join date : 2010-08-23

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 10:18 am

I'm with Crofter. Have to lock it down v Dub and have to motivate the players to do it in that way. Every turnover is a point. It is a mindset.

After that game, try and develop the gameplan a little more for Div 2. Next year and championship to follow.

It has to be stages now. I would rather lose by 10/12points and see some soet of development than lose by 20 and see nothing for the future.

I watched cork play down last weekend in Maynooth. All I learned was about the kick outs and how every team is trying to counter and develop on them. Fascinating. The two teams were end to end in hot weather. Down had one twrget man in full forward line who they kept hitting but he did nothing with ball. Very laboured. Cork had a three man full forward line of O'Neill, Hurley and the new young lad.
Back to top Go down
Ois
Junior C
Junior C


Posts : 19
Join date : 2014-01-01

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 10:23 am

Lads, was at the match tonight. We dodged a bullet as we should have been beaten by 3 or 4 points by a div 4 side. We are in the business end of the year now and where is the improvement???

We may not concede 5 or 7 goals now but will we score more than 5 or 7 points??? Had we lost today it would have been as bad a defeat as those to Dublin and Kerry last year. Tiny Kildare crowd. Dark days for us loyal supporters at senior level anyway!!!

P.S. we produce high quality guys at u-21 level that seem to go backwards a couple of years later at senior level???l
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 10:23 am

JohnnyC wrote:
Good job our friend Noel Mooney wasn't reffing today - otherwise we would have conceded a lot more frees. Rory Hickey showed a bit of cop on and let it flow a bit. We hardly win any frees ourselves because we hardly ever take on our men. We just crab across the pitch and either the move breaks down or we take a Hail Mary shot from 45 yards that usually go miles wide.

Bit surprised Cathal McNally doesn't seem to get a look in these days. His shooting might not be the best but he has a good engine and I think he would be suited to the defend deep/break quickly(?) game we seem to be trying to play.

Thought that myself. Not even on the bench. Have to imagine he was injured as he surely would have brought more to it than some of the subs we had. Maybe his ill-discipline in getting needlessly sent off v Laois told against him. Suspect it was more likely injury/fitness though.
Back to top Go down
kickingking
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1985
Join date : 2010-02-02
Location : The Shortgrass

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 10:36 am

If you told me beforehand that we would only score 9 points, 2 in the second half, that Eoghan O'Flaherty and Paul Cribbin would be taken off after both being held scoreless, and that we would still win, I wouldn't have believed you. By god it was hard stuff to watch but I can see where Crofter is coming from. Clare created a bucketload of goal chances against us as did a few more teams during the league - not to mention the Kerry and Dublin games last year. At least there is acknowledgement now that we have to try something slightly different.

The problem with employing these tactics tonight was that Kildare sorely lacked an outlet ball to the full forward line. By having numbers back you sacrifice a lot of territory. There's less ball going in to your inside men who are left isolated. When it does go in it needs to stick and they have to make it count. Alan Smith has never been a player to lead an attack and has always done better when he has a player to feed off. Dowling is similar. Neil Flynn had a decent championship debut and Leper's impact was important. Having Dan Flynn and Niall Kelly available tonight would have improved things. Flynn would have provided the outlet inside that we lacked tonight and Kelly always makes things happen.

It's hard to crib the performance of most of the backs even though they had plenty of help tonight. We didn't concede as many needless frees as we usually do although this aspect still needs working on. Hyland, Houlihan, Doyle and Lyons all did well and Cian O'Donoghue had a good impact off the bench. Both midfielders looked pretty lost at times. They had very few kickouts to scrap over considering we went short with almost every single one. Likewise Eoghan O'Flaherty and Paul Cribbin weren't in the game at all. Maybe that's another symptom of the strategy we were playing because you essentially sacrifice the entire half forward line.

We're at a very low ebb at senior level and I'd agree that a lot of our panel simply don't have the quality required against the better teams. I'm hopeful though that O'Neill can take Kildare forward in the next few years and that tonight is the start of a proper structure (and more importantly a proper competitive mindset) being put in place. It's going to need an awful lot of refinement and probably five or six more new players introduced over the next year or two and unfortunately we're going to have to be patient. I can't blame any supporter who has lost patience though and turned away from it. The last few years have been bleak and Dublin's looming presence over everyone else in Leinster is very deflating. The Kildare crowd tonight must have been the lowest for a championship match in Croke Park for decades.
Back to top Go down
Gaa1928
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 800
Join date : 2013-07-22

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 10:43 am

Gaa1928 wrote:
Dinny Breen wrote:
Gaa1928 wrote:
The evolution of any team technically, tactically, physically and mentally doesn't happen overnight.

I agree 100% however after 4 games in the O'Byrne Cup, 8 games in the League, numerous friendlies and approx. 80 training sessions one would and maybe should expect some improvement and notice the effect of the new management team.

Having spoken to some lads they haven't seen it yet but hopefully from Saturday onwards we will all see improvement. Cill Dara Abu.

All about balance, he has to evaluate players as well, how many different players were used during the league, we were without some u21s as well. Is 12 games really enough to ensure promotion, formulate a championship squad and a settled squad not just for this season but the next 3 to 4 all the time changing our style of play? How many of those 80 sessions are on the pitch even half?  

I agree, however progress won't come overnight either so I would like to start seeing some sooner rather then later or we could be 3/4years waiting for nothing.

I hope today is not the start of my worst fears coming true. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad
Back to top Go down
reichenhall
Senior
Senior


Posts : 103
Join date : 2014-03-30

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 10:47 am

thats a fair post jim........,but jayses i haven't seen this forum so downbeat in years...is it the players ? the management/tactics or a combination ?

most counties on any given day will have 3/4 if not more players injured (partly due to the heavy training schedules/games expected of club/county players nowdays, i would suggest).....and perhaps a small county like Kildare can ill afford this.........

Kevin sems to be doin fine at Pats so i can't see him playin GAA anytime soon

so lets give the lads our full support......hon the lillies..
Back to top Go down
JohnnyC
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 691
Join date : 2011-06-28

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 6:06 pm

kickingking wrote:
 I'm hopeful though that O'Neill can take Kildare forward in the next few years and that tonight is the start of a proper structure (and more importantly a proper competitive mindset) being put in place.
It will be interesting to see if Cian O'Neill will keep this style of play or will go back to the "open" style of play we have been playing. The Kildare crowd around me were saying it was the worst Kildare performance ever (I thought the Clare performance a couple of weeks ago was worse!) and he's probably going to take criticism from the Sunday Game etc as well. After one of the earlier matches he said he doesn't like playing with lots of players behind the ball and certainly players like Cribbin, Eoghan O'Flaherty, Moolick and Feely looked a bit lost playing this way.

I hope he'll stick to his guns and try to refine the system for the rest of the championship. We certainly couldn't go on conceding the big scores we were conceding. I think Mayo and Dublin are the only teams that can go man for man defensively, and even Dublin have started to funnel extra men back.
Back to top Go down
kickingking
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1985
Join date : 2010-02-02
Location : The Shortgrass

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 6:40 pm

JohnnyC wrote:
kickingking wrote:
 I'm hopeful though that O'Neill can take Kildare forward in the next few years and that tonight is the start of a proper structure (and more importantly a proper competitive mindset) being put in place.
It will be interesting to see if Cian O'Neill will keep this style of play or will go back to the "open" style of play we have been playing. The Kildare crowd around me were saying it was the worst Kildare performance ever (I thought the Clare performance a couple of weeks ago was worse!) and he's probably going to take criticism from the Sunday Game etc as well. After one of the earlier matches he said he doesn't like playing with lots of players behind the ball and certainly players like Cribbin, Eoghan O'Flaherty, Moolick and Feely looked a bit lost playing this way.

I hope he'll stick to his guns and try to refine the system for the rest of the championship. We certainly couldn't go on conceding the big scores we were conceding. I think Mayo and Dublin are the only teams that can go man for man defensively, and even Dublin have started to funnel extra men back.

The strategy certainly needs some refinement and the players will have to adapt. Yesterday must have been the first match in Croke Park since the Division 2 league final against Tyrone in 2012 that we kept a clean sheet. Tomás Ó Sé wrote yesterday that we don't have "clever, hungry defenders" and on the evidence of the last few years it's hard to disagree with him. I don't think anyone likes that style of football one bit and Kildare's version of it yesterday certainly needs a lot of fine tuning but not coughing up a goal chance was a small step forward.
Back to top Go down
topcat
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1257
Join date : 2010-07-31

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 7:15 pm

This defensive structure/strategy will take months not weeks to implement properly, Donegal didn't perfect it until well into McGuiness' second year and Cian O Neill is not Jim McGuinness but if he believes that this is the best way forward for Kildare he must persist with it.

Dropping it now after one poor performance would be nonsensical, if you were a player in the dressing room and the defensive game plan was ditched after one game, how could you have any belief in the management team.
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 7:48 pm

Fully agree on all points Topcat. I'm probably still grasping at straws but anyone remember Donegal v Antrim in McGuinness's first year? They just needed a win - any win. To be competitive and not to roll over. Now I think our "not rolling over" was partly down to a poor Wexford side with 3 forwards living off past glories but at least we dug in and for once won a tight game. This was precisely the sort of as up and performance I'd hoped we'd produce in the league. Still baffled why we didn't do it in the final when promotion was secured or even in the challenge v Laois. Opportunities wasted.

By the way if Tyrone beat Derry 0-9 to 0-8 today no doubt it will be an example of the ultra-competitive nature of Ulster.
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 7:51 pm

reichenhall wrote:
thats a fair post jim........,but jayses i haven't seen this forum so downbeat in years...is it the players ? the management/tactics or a combination ?

most counties on any given day will have 3/4 if not more players injured (partly due to the heavy training schedules/games expected of club/county players nowdays, i would suggest).....and perhaps a small county like Kildare can ill afford this.........

Kevin sems to be doin fine at Pats so i can't see him playin GAA anytime soon

so lets give the lads our full support......hon the lillies..

You mean Rory?
Back to top Go down
SeamusMurphy
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 3366
Join date : 2011-09-27

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 8:22 pm

There are club teams in kildare with better systems of defensive play. Jez just go to a senior league match any weekend..
I take the point it takes time, and most club teams and management are more advanced in their set up. . But it's not like this style of defensive play or system is totally alien to the player's, and shouldn't be that hard to adapt to.
Back to top Go down
Stonecold
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1089
Join date : 2010-07-04

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 8:53 pm

That's laughable comparing to Jim McGuinness who won the U21 championship as manager before stepping up to senior manager. People weren't willing to give Jason Ryan one year and now we're talking about 3 years... Laughable, but it's really not
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 9:00 pm

Fair point Seamus. To be honest I think it was our inability to attack intelligently or with any power or pace where the tactics fell down. It wasn't so much that we were all out defence. Wexford had the same tactics but were slightly better at beating a man and drawing a foul. We just resorted to lateral hand passing as the middle 3 big lads all seemed leaden-footed (I don't blame that on tactics, in the case of two of them that's just their physiology it seems) and we had no clever foot-passing from what was left of the half-forward line once Cribbin wasn't functioning. I presume E.Flats was supposed to be the "Niall Kelly" in this set-up. Unfortunately Eoin isn't great in tight, physical encounters in my view. Needs space to flourish. Then Smith wasn't able to make the ball stick very regularly as leader of the inside two. Flynn tried hard but a lot to ask of such a young lad.

Net net we need more mobility around midfield using these tactics. Feely looked badly injured so may be out of the equation but in truth he has disappointed me a lot since his first game or two. Cribbin on form can play a mobile MF role well (Thurles last year) and Moolick normally is a good up and down midfielder. Maybe Matty Byrne can play some role around the middle too if someone else isn't firing. Seems very mobile and a good athlete.

In the forwards I'd still love to see Podge back but can't see that happening this year. But add Dan Flynn's pace and Niall Kelly's class and it's a different equation.

I wouldn't give up on it just yet.

I see us at the same stage as 3 teams from the past:

- Donegal in McGuinness's first year
- Geezer's 2008 team
- Monaghan 3 or 4 years ago
- Cavan 2 or 3 years ago

First step - stop being nice, stop conceding goals, add some divilment to defence (Doyle)
Next step - fine tune transition to attack
Crowning glory - marquee forwards needed

Of the four teams listed only Donegal had that magic final ingredient. But the other three all did a darn sight better than they had been doing beforehand. Geezer cured our awful Qualifier record reaching QF's, SF's and Div 1. Monaghan won 2 Ulsters. Cavan are back in Div 1.

Baby steps lads. Well done Cian... (Until the next day...)
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 9:07 pm

Stonecold wrote:
That's laughable comparing to Jim McGuinness who won the U21 championship as manager before stepping up to senior manager. People weren't willing to give Jason Ryan one year and now we're talking about 3 years... Laughable, but it's really not

Some people just don't want to read what's in front of them. I was comparing to the SITUATION McGuinness was in and how he first went about addressing it. Never in a million years suggested O'Neill is on a par with McGuinness. I've been very critical of O'Neill all through the league. There's very few McGuinness's out there and O'Neill hasn't shown the ruthlessness or single-mindedness to suggest he's another one. Shouldn't have taken him this long to try SOME defensive stategy.


Last edited by Crofter on Sun May 22, 2016 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 9:16 pm

Ps Jason Ryan was criticised/ran out of town because he produced the most tactically inept Kildare side of modern times and dragged a Div 1 semi final team kicking and screaming to Div 3 with championship humiliations along the way. He only had one significant result in two years - Cork. If O'Neill does the same he'll surely go the same way. But if we progress over a year or more (not 5 months) then yes 3 years seems a reasonable timeframe to me given how (relatively) strong we're proving at underage level.


Last edited by Crofter on Sun May 22, 2016 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 9:23 pm

From Cian O'Neill :
- Feely injury looks serious. Separation of AC joint.
- McNally picked up an injury last week having been going very well
- Flynn and Kelly will be back for semi final
- Tyrell was only just back from injury
Back to top Go down
Ohtoohtobe
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1068
Join date : 2010-07-03

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 10:25 pm

Crofter wrote:
Ps Jason Ryan was criticised/ran out of town because he produced the most tactically inept Kildare side of modern times and dragged a Div 1 semi final team kicking and screaming to Div 3 with championship humiliations along the way. He only had one significant result in two years - Cork. If O'Neill does the same he'll surely go the same way. But if we progress over a year or more (not 5 months) then yes 3 years seems a reasonable timeframe to me given how (relatively) strong we're proving at underage level.

I would give O'Neill three years almost regardless of results but just on Ryan, the other achievement if you want to call it that is we didn't lose to any of the 'weaker' Leinster counties. We destroyed Laois, Longford and Louth in championship, hammered Down away and took Monaghan to extra time. O'Neill hasn't lost to a side like the four above in championship either but came damn close yesterday.
Back to top Go down
flourman
All-Star
All-Star


Posts : 1040
Join date : 2010-02-16

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 10:58 pm

A lot of discussion around tactics and systems going on which I guess is fair enough, but surely player attitude has to be questioned here as well.
Far too many players sauntering around Croke Park last night, which left players in possession with little or no options. Very few players busting a gut to support the play - there was acres of space in front and to the sides of the player in possession with exception of a few nobody was willing to attack the space at pace and give players options - it all looked lazy and pedestrian - with the inevitable result of endless side and backward passes.
You'd have seen more forward passes at a rugby game - deeply depressing stuff.
Back to top Go down
kildaregaa365
All-Star
All-Star
avatar

Posts : 1809
Join date : 2010-02-09

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 11:12 pm

flourman wrote:
A lot of discussion around tactics and systems going on which I guess is fair enough, but surely player attitude has to be questioned here as well.
Far too many players sauntering around Croke Park last night, which left players in possession with little or no options. Very few players busting a gut to support the play - there was acres of space in front and to the sides of the player in possession with exception of a few nobody was willing to attack the space at pace and give players options - it all looked lazy and pedestrian - with the inevitable result of endless side and backward passes.
You'd have seen more forward passes at a rugby game - deeply depressing stuff.

+1
really good point

Plenty were willing to do the hard graft getting back but few enough taking initiative going forward. Lyons did, Hyland did, Conway and Doyle to a degree but all from the FB/HB line. No one in MF/HF lines willing / fit enough (?) to take it on further up the pitch.
Back to top Go down
totalgaa
Senior
Senior


Posts : 141
Join date : 2010-07-15

PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Sun May 22, 2016 11:39 pm

Having watched Kildare football for close on 50 years, I have to say what I witnessed in Croke Park yesterday must rate as one of the worst games of football I have ever seen. Were we trying to copy a mixture of Donegal with our massed defense and Dublin with our lateral passing when we got to midfield. The only difference we had no runners coming through at pace or off the shoulder. We looked like a team that were under strict orders not to go forward and Olly seemed to be the only one who had licence to take on the defence while others looked as if they were playing with fear they might make a mistake. I dont think either goal keeper had to make any sort of a save and I dont think there was even one 45 in the game. At times it was embarrassing to witness all the lateral passing and I cannot remember a Kildare team ever been booed which happened at one stage yesterday when after at least 20 passes we were still going backwards. I was on the Cusack side of the field and to witness the Kildare players coming off the pitch you would think they had lost the game with the body landguage and expression on their faces.

Just on another note can someone from the GAA not see that they are killing the game in the smaller counties, now i am not talking about the dominance of Dublin, but just the fact that championship was always about the day out but to put that game in Croke Park on a Saturday evening and charge 25 euro a head to witness what we seen with no atmosphere and a horrible game to boot it will be RIP for the earlier rounds of the championship if this continues, look at Port Laoise last week end Laois at home, a double header and from watching the Sunday Game last week the Stands looked less than half full with terraces behind goals empty. I ask the question is it the price thats keeping people away, Saturday evening fixtures or just no interest because everyone thinks the Dubs are a shoo in. It need addressing whatever the reason.

Very disillusioned and depressed about Kildare GAA and and whole Gaelic Football scene this morning
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    

Back to top Go down
 
kildare v Wexford
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 7 of 10Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Kildare U21's 2011 - Official Thread
» Four Kildare players selected for Leinster
» New Kildare selector
» Kildare County Convention 2010 - Motions
» Who is the Kildare Man Heading for the Banner?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Kildare Gaa Fans Forum :: General Football Discussion-
Jump to: