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 kildare v Wexford

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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 8:46 am

That's fine crofter, but challenge matches ie versus laois.
Most of the top teams are able to adopt their style of play depending on the opposition.. I just didn't see the logic of setting up that way against wexford.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 9:42 am

I'm on the record saying he should have used the tactic during the league. Get them used to it and they'd have it in the locker to use when needed in summer. But given he let the opportunity pass v Clare and Laois he had to do it v Wexford.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 am

I think it might have been that the Clare game simply finally convinced O'Neill that he was going to have to try something a bit different to stop Kildare leaking scores. I'm not sure there was a grand plan to set up the way we did during the league and then go defensive come the summer.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 10:48 am

Lads if we lose to Offaly it will be a terrible start to Cian's time in charge.
Remember the two teams that beat us last year were the two that played the All-Ireland final.
Maybe we have to take two steps back to go forward but I thought the team should be a little stronger this year than last, what with Hyland, Flynn and Feely back in the fold, Neil Flynn breaking through, and other young players being a bit more experienced.
I mean I wasn't expecting dramatic improvement, but remember we did hammer Cork and Laois last year.
If we go from that to scraping over Wexford and losing to Offaly, serious questions would have to be asked.
Hopefully the return of Dan Flynn and Niall Kelly gives us enough to avoid that.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 10:52 am

Xavi wrote:
I was scoffed at when I suggested I was worried we drew with laois in a challenge a few weeks back. laois are a team going no where with players waiting to losee so they can head to states  .after beating wicklow they drank like they'd won leinster

at the moment our lads simply are not good enough. we are better than wexford but the reason it was so close was they had much more hunger and desire. not a first time hunger and desire was questioned of this bunch .

Jesus, here we are back to this shite again, when we play bad take it out on the neighbours instead of blaming ourselves..
I happen to know a few of the Laois panel and I can tell you that is far from the truth, some of the panel who didn't play went for a drink but the majority didn't and it was all approved by management. Think we had a drinking incident too so we cant throw stones..
We are now heading the same way as Laois and every other county in Leinster and the dominance of Dublin has a lot to do with that. No team wants to face them in Leinster and if we are honest Laois have always put it up to them in recent years. Hope we can say the same when (or IF) we meet them in the Leinster final.
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 8:15 pm

kickingking wrote:
I think it might have been that the Clare game simply finally convinced O'Neill that he was going to have to try something a bit different to stop Kildare leaking scores. I'm not sure there was a grand plan to set up the way we did during the league and then go defensive come the summer.
In an interview on KFM at the weekend, Cian O'Neill said he always intended to play more defensively for the championship. You'd have to think that the Clare game finally convinced him.

With a number of players off-form or lacking confidence or just not working hard enough, we are going to struggle no matter what way we play.
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Dinny Breen
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 11:25 pm

Should we be over analyzing this one game, depressing as it was. History is littered with examples of managers that struggled in their first championship games, Roscommon put in a worst perfomance than Kildare against a scratch side and hammered Leitrim next game up. It's fair to say Roscommon are ahead of Kildare in terms of development and are a maker for Kildare.


Micko Louth 1991
McGeeney Wicklow 2008
Gilroy Meath 2009 - Dublin Scrape past Meath in an awful game
James Horan Mayo v London 2011, needed extra time to get past them
McStay/FOD Roscommon V NY 2016 - a lucky escape for the Rossies

In any sport teams will struggle with a new manager, Schmidt with Leinster (Seamus Murphy George Hook was calling for his head), Ferguson at Man United, a Mark Robbins goal away from the sack, Pochettino at Spurs, even the great Phil Jackson lost 5 of his first 10 games and failed to win anything in his first year with the Bulls (he went on to win 11 NBA titles). I go on and on.

This knee-jerk, twitter induced, sky sports style chumps to champs in a instance is crazy, I'm sure most people here have been involved in successful teams or even businesses. Nothing happens over night and certainly not in 5 months, it happens through planning, hard work and belief. We need to believe in these guys, they are clearly struggling to believe in themselves but as supporters we have to back them and the management. They are sacrificing the best years of the their lives for Kildare football and it is a sacrifice.

Look I think the most intelligent point made on Kildare football that I have read in a long time is this by Shergar

Shergar wrote:


After we beat Offaly in the Leinster minor semi-final in 2004 we lost our next 8 minor championship games until 2009. In the 6 years from 07 - 12 we were beaten first time out in the under 21 championship 4 times, beat Wexford & Carlow before being comfortably beaten by Laois in 09 and had one really good year in 08 from which we got a small number of future seniors. No matter how bad your underage structures, the best will find a way through (P Kelly, Flats) but we don't have many quality players from those age groups who would be in the 25 - 30 age group now to drive on the team. We're paying the price now for being late to the party in getting our underage squads properly organised and coached.


it can give context to why we have no leaders, why all our best players are in their early 20s, why we can't close games out. We are paying the price for poor planning something that we can all recognized has changed. So if we don't panic, if we get the culture right (and I believe O'Neill is right for that) then perhaps we have a bright future ahead of us and having seen our minors over the last 7 years I believe that future is coming.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 11:43 pm

We seem to have a major problem with players stepping fro 21 to senior. I don't mean just coming on to the panel but the type of player. At the moment we don't have a player that even if he's have a poor game he still has a moment of magic that could win a game. We seem to have a lot of good players but no great players. I'm sure many will disagree but i just don't see them.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Tue May 24, 2016 11:52 pm

I spoke with an u21 player recently who got a call up to senior panel.. he declined the offer, and told me he'd have no life if he did commit.. and having played with kildare since u14, he needed a break.. I couldn't argue with that.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 8:26 am

SeamusMurphy wrote:
I spoke with an u21 player recently who got a call up to senior panel.. he declined the offer, and told me he'd have no life if he did commit.. and having played with kildare since u14, he needed a break.. I couldn't argue with that.

Taking the summer out last year doesn't seem to have done Neil Flynn any harm. Hopefully the likes of Mark Sherry, Ben McCormack and Paul Mescal come back next year fresh and ready to stake a claim for a place with the seniors.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 10:17 am

Hopefully kkk, a break sometimes does no harm.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 10:55 am

Pascal o Connell from athy I think that's the guy name was midfield for u/21 I think would walk on to out midfield was he called up yet?
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 11:44 am

white boy wrote:
Pascal  o Connell from athy I think that's the guy name was midfield for u/21 I think would walk on to out midfield was he called up yet?

Well O'Neill said when they called up McCormack, Healy and Kavanagh that there were other under-21s they wanted to come in but all were unavailable for one reason or another. I'm guessing but you'd think Connell was probably one of those.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 6:54 pm

white boy wrote:
Pascal  o Connell from athy I think that's the guy name was midfield for u/21 I think would walk on to out midfield was he called up yet?

Hardly, when it's unlikely he'll even start midfield for athy.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 7:47 pm

Are we starting to suffer the old Laois syndrome of burning guys out at underage and the senior team not making headway??
I hear Brendan Hackett called a training session for the minors on Sunday evening -god forbid they might play for their clubs or even think it is important to play for their clubs... #creating the wrong attitude
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 9:51 pm

micky murphy wrote:
Are we starting to suffer the old Laois syndrome of burning guys out at underage and the senior team not making headway??
I hear Brendan Hackett called a training session for the minors on Sunday evening -god forbid they might play for their clubs or even think it is important to play for their clubs... #creating the wrong attitude  

I think the Laois syndrome wasn't about burning lads out physically, it was the stars in their heads burned too bright too soon causing a supernova every two years and constant rows and BS!
So yeah maybe we are suffering a bit of that where lads seem to think we are better than we are and definitely (as is the second point from Mick) too good to be playing club football.
How many times do/ did county men line out for their clubs in recent years. Even when they are cleared to play there seems to be an in-house agreement not to.
If you're not a club man then you won't do it for your county. The really good teams have lads that will go through walls for their club first and foremost.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 10:05 pm

If you're not a club man then you won't do it for your county. The really good teams have lads that will go through walls for their club first and foremost.

I think the above is a very valid point.   I think of Roli, Dermot, Chalky and Johnny of recent years  who fall into the above category ( I am sure there are a few more ).   Struggle to think of many these days.   You will see plenty of 'county players' at league games these days but not 'togged out'.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 11:08 pm

Valid point micky, not the first time Mr Hackett has pulled that one.. in fairness to the player's, they know what the consequences are should they go against his orders (recall anyone ).
As regards the senior player's, there's always a little niggle they've picked up, and again whether this is a management call or not is anyone guess.
I saw JD recently play for allenwood, and while the legs are gone, by jez the spirit and fight and will to win was still there.. how we'd love to have a few fellas with half his liarodi.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Wed May 25, 2016 11:31 pm

micky murphy wrote:
Are we starting to suffer the old Laois syndrome of burning guys out at underage and the senior team not making headway??
I hear Brendan Hackett called a training session for the minors on Sunday evening -god forbid they might play for their clubs or even think it is important to play for their clubs... #creating the wrong attitude  

From what I was told the Minors were to meet on Tuesday night as normal after the their championship win.
County Board said players were to train with their clubs this week as club championship was on next weekend so minors had a team meeting (not training) on Sunday evening instead. As players are not permitted to play with their clubs for league or challenge games anyway, this minor meeting had no effect on teams playing league games as Croke Park set the new rules for minor players at last years congress.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Thu May 26, 2016 5:58 am

Well if you look at o Connell performance in u/21 he for me look like a guy that could go right to the top. I spoke to a Dublin guy in work who was at the match was very impressed with him . What's athy is doing with him I don't know .the longer the game went on the better he got . He got pace Something I here a lot of talk about on what we need ..
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Thu May 26, 2016 6:58 am

Big step up.. tbh I actually thought luke flynn was the better of the midfielders.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Thu May 26, 2016 10:58 am

Even if either Connell or Luke Flynn were available you'd hardly be pitching them straight in to a Leinster semi-final for their debut. It's a massive step up and even for lads who are definitely good enough, like Niall Kelly, it takes at least a year or two to adapt. Division Two will be a good place to give such players a chance next year.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Thu May 26, 2016 9:16 pm

Fck no OTB, I was only making the point that luke was the more impressive of the u21 midfielder imo.. and like pascal is unlikely to be at midfield for jtb, preferably a better full back imo of course.
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Fri May 27, 2016 12:10 am

Was watching the game and the defense just do not tackle anymore. It is so easy for a kildare back to get bet by a wexford player. Remember we were playing Wexford here and if they really went for it would of bet us.
What is our half back line told to do for example? Bolton just kept running up and down his wing nearly ignoring his first job of actually marking his man. In fairness to him he was substituted exhausted from this but it made me think is he actually using his footballing brain at all or just running lines. Wing backs should be able to defend first and at all possible set up attacks with good quality ball in. And even get a score themselves. Or am I just talking rubbish?
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PostSubject: Re: kildare v Wexford    Fri May 27, 2016 12:27 am

Dead right botch 1st thing is to defend with intensity, problem with a lot of intercounty and club teams that 'go defensive' is that some players think it is a get out of jail card and as they have cover in an extra defensive man that they don't need to work as hard when the opposite actually applies the players need to work twice as hard to implement the system as Dublin and Donegal demonstrated in recent years.
I trust the manager will easily be able to demonstrate this in the video analysis of the game and hope we will be a lot better at it the next day, the phrase 'hunting like a pack of hungry wolves' comes to mind!!!!
Too many Kildare players on Sat evening were not interested in 'tacking with intensity' and were waiting for someone else to do the work.....
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