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 Kildare v westmeath

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Xavi
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:42 pm

micky murphy wrote:


there is no where to hide in Croke Park on championship days and you will be found out which is what happened to us, too many local celebrities living off their underage glory......

This is all coming from creating mini celebrities at underage levels and we are churning the wrong attitude from the players coming out of development squads which many people have said to me at league games in different clubs this year the players the clubs are getting back from the development squads attitude stinks and they think they can do what they want.

This. Was at a club championship game recently when I over heard a Kildare player saying to an opponent he was a nobody. Same Kildare player in the greater scheme of things has been hanging around the squad for years without getting a kick. Imagine what the attitude of those starting like
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jj
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:44 pm

Is there anything to be said for another mass
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hawker
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:47 pm

Crofter wrote:
Team the next day:

Rex

Jimmers
TommyO'Neill
Taibi

Kildare Blade
Kelf
OhTooBe

Murof
Stonecold

Xavi
Inexile
Celbridgelad

TommyONeill's Sister
Tommy Keegan
Ogie

(a few blow ins in true Micko/McGeeney tradition)

Can we do any worse?

Not even a starting place for me now? All because I had a few pints on Saturday night. You should have done the decent thing and picked up the phone to tell me I was dropped. Disgraceful man-management.

Crofter out.
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Frankel
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:16 pm

micky murphy wrote:


This is all coming from creating mini celebrities at underage levels and we are churning the wrong attitude from the players coming out of development squads which many people have said to me at league games in different clubs this year the players the clubs are getting back from the development squads attitude stinks and they think they can do what they want.

This is a big problem. Young lads with their head up their holes once they get a sniff of being on a county team and couldn't give a flying f** about their club. Problem is players with this attitude, at county level are usually found wanting when the going gets tough.
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Frankel
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:17 pm

jj wrote:
Is there anything to be said for another mass

No. The Lord himself wouldn't inspire this shower we have at the moment.
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:24 pm

Frankel wrote:
micky murphy wrote:


This is all coming from creating mini celebrities at underage levels and we are churning the wrong attitude from the players coming out of development squads which many people have said to me at league games in different clubs this year the players the clubs are getting back from the development squads attitude stinks and they think they can do what they want.

This is a big problem. Young lads with their head up their holes once they get a sniff of being on a county team and couldn't give a flying f** about their club. Problem is players with this attitude, at county level are usually found wanting when the going gets tough.

This was also mentioned to me by a manager a few months ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:25 pm

I'm a broken man - that is all.
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:27 pm

Any truth in the rumour that 3 players left the squad last week. Was told it by 3 different people yesterday afternoon.
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jj
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:43 pm

Gaa1928 wrote:
Any truth in the rumour that 3 players left the squad last week.  Was told it by 3 different people yesterday afternoon.

Sad if true but a clear indication of where we're at. Never felt as low about Kildare football as I do right now and it's not as if we've had lows in the not so distant past. I'm not sure if we've even hit the bottom yet
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Xavi
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:44 pm

Gaa1928 wrote:
Any truth in the rumour that 3 players left the squad last week.  Was told it by 3 different people yesterday afternoon.

That's run of the Mill rumours when Kildare get beaten. That and player fall outs, X player was seen on the lash last week, Y player is going to America.

They'll all be out in the coming weeks.

Reading the Independent and Times this morning make for embarrassing reading . Cian O Neill must be on a different planet to everyone else in Kildare.

Don't ever remember being as embarrassed or ashamed to be a Kildare man after the pitiful performance yesterday. Don't mind losing when you go down with your boots on.
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lomond
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:47 pm

A shocking performance yesterday, the pace we do things compared to Dublin, Kerry etc is light years apart. We need to look at the pace we do things in training because we are just so poor at breaking at pace. Ollie lyons was the only one who had the pace to get by a few opponents on a consistent basis yesterday. I was surprised at taking off Bolton yesterday as he had kicked a few points, however the Westmeath No 7 James Dolan had caused us a few issues in the first half by ghosting up and winning a few frees as when Bolton dropped back into the defensive system no one picked up his runs until it was too late (Maybe Bolton should have been doing this?). We bring on Chris Healy then we kick high balls into him which was awful stuff. Is Alan Smith after dropping down the pecking order that much?
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:49 pm

Xavi wrote:
Gaa1928 wrote:
Any truth in the rumour that 3 players left the squad last week.  Was told it by 3 different people yesterday afternoon.

That's run of the Mill rumours when Kildare get beaten. That and player fall outs, X player was seen on the lash last week, Y player is going to America.

They'll all be out in the coming weeks.

Reading the Independent and Times this morning make for embarrassing reading . Cian O Neill must be on a different planet to everyone else in Kildare.  

Don't ever remember being as embarrassed or ashamed to be a Kildare man after the pitiful performance yesterday.  Don't mind losing when you go down with your boots on.

Would agree in general, however was told this well before the game started.
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umpireonditch
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:51 pm

Did O'Neill start running the bench a bit too early?


I make it 6 seasons in a row now that we have gone out at Leinster Semi final stage...that's terrible.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:59 pm

jj wrote:
Gaa1928 wrote:
Any truth in the rumour that 3 players left the squad last week.  Was told it by 3 different people yesterday afternoon.

Sad if true but a clear indication of where we're at. Never felt as low about Kildare football as I do right now and it's not as if we've had lows in the not so distant past. I'm not sure if we've even hit the bottom yet

Cian said last week that Matty Byrne had left the panel. Not sure why. Can't imagine McGrillen sticking around with no chances. I'm also at my lowest point supporting Kildare, even worse than the 80s as I was young and still enthusiastic back then (and assumed it would be alright once I made county :-) )
Broken man as Flourman says.

On a more positive note I'm now 10th nationwide out of 500+ in the Facetheball prediction competition although I have to admit I put WM down to win by 2 pts and feel somewhat disloyal for that when my heart said we'd sneak it. Every cloud and all that..
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:09 pm

flourman wrote:
I'm a broken man - that is all.
Me too. There's only so much we can take...
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lilywhites on tour
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:33 pm

Jaysus it doesn't feel any better this morning. I reckon if we dug up the team of 28 - what ever is left of them we'd have had more fight .....
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:47 pm

I could never catch a high ball so I would be well suited to be a Kildare midfielder. I had the same feeling as O2 watching the last few mins, wanting us to equalise but hoping we wouldn't as Dublin would absolutely destroy us in the final.
That performance was not a one off, even in the league matches we won we never showed any drive or energy to put teams away.
Westmeath are a really poor team but have the right atttitude and can sense when when the opposition are not up to it.
Would we have come back from 6 down like they did?
I presume the Offlay match is in Conleths, certainly wont have to worry about crowd heath and safety on the day like in the past
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:49 pm

Like everyone on here I am totally dis heartened by Kildare football and the type of football they are trying to play and just one incident yesterday should be shown to players and management and asked why did this happen

It involved one of our senior forwards making a run down the hogan stand side of the field in the first half, suddenly the the pitch opened up for him and in previous incarnations he would have kept going and popped over the bar, not this time brakes came on (as if to say I am too far forward) and he turns and passes the ball back 30 yards, horrible stuff.
Now I reckon he made that move because of the three "C", Confidence, Coaching or Cowardice but to me summed up the whole attitude of the Kildare team yesterday.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:53 pm

Are these really the best footballers that are in the county ?.
No heart , no fight, clueless on and off the pitch.
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Cilldara_2000
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:01 pm

Cilldara_2000 wrote:
Is it too much of an overreaction to say that as a footballing county we haven't changed much at all in the last 25 years? I say 25 years as that’s the extent of my “career” following Kildare. Bar the occasional exceptional season, we are soft and windy. Plenty of nice talented footballers but few with bottle or stomach for a battle. We can only beat other soft teams, EG Laois; teams already “softened up” by the big boys, EG Cork; or teams who are significantly inferior, EG Longford or Offaly.

I’m not sure if it was the first or second goal, the reaction of a number of players with their heads in their hands and so on, stood out for me. All fight and spirit was gone at that stage. It's a psychiatrist or a brain surgeon we need more so than a manager.

I posted the above after the annihilation by Kerry last year.

The team and subs that played yesterday are not a terrible bunch of lads. Some of them deservedly had big reputations. Some of them have won plenty at underage level (by Kildare's standards at least). But now for the last 4 years (I'd trace the rot as having started in 2012 when we capitulated to Cork in the AI qtr final) they have basically completely lost the plot.

While my comment then about these boys needing a psychiatrist was made tongue in cheek, I now think this is something that needs to be seriously looked at. There's clearly something not right in their heads.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:15 pm

Rex Jimmers TommyO'Neill Taibi Kildare Blade Kelf OhTooBe Murof Stonecold Xavi Inexile Celbridgelad TommyONeill's Sister Tommy Keegan Ogie (a few blow ins in true Micko/McGeeney tradition) Can we do any worse? wrote:

Wow, I even get included as a rookie.

Still, could definitely do better than that lot yesterday. The highlight of my day was the half-time burger.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:17 pm

There were two reasons I thought we might edge this. One, all we heard in the buildup to the game was about the work put in to improve the transition game. Two, Westmeath have little strength in depth and tired in the second half v Offaly. As it turned out, there was little or no evidence of improvement in the transition game and Westmeath clearly came on for their game against Offaly two weeks ago.

The players played the game at a slow pace not because of fitness but because they are overthinking every move. You do that when you are either uncomfortable or unsure of what you are doing. Either the players can't implement the game plan being asked of them or it is not being coached properly. To me, players like Morgan Flats, Conway, Moolick and, at this stage of their careers, Bolton and Leper haven't the legs to implement this game plan and it is not going to work even if we persist with it for another 12 months.

Then again after the league final this is what everyone wanted. By the same token most people complained about us continually kicking out long. The problem with going short is it gives the defence more time and space to get organised. Peter Canavan made an interesting point about Donegals short passing under McGuinness. Traditionally Donegal teams have moved the ball like this because with the wind blowing in on the coast kicking the ball long and accurately was difficult so club teams in Donegal always resorted to handpassing. It's in their DNA. Ditto high fielding for us. During previous bad years through the decades it was one of the few things we could do competently. Just because it's not fashionable to go long with kickouts these days, I don't think we should shy away from doing it more often.

The big concern I have long-term over the manager is that he's area of expertise is actual coaching, that's what he has been doing up until now. As I understand it he does nearly all the coaching work with the players at training sessions (certainly the key stuff). Yet all year our midfielders are being beaten to high ball by smaller players because they can't get their bodies in the right position to block off their opponent from challenging without fouling. Our forward movement in the last couple of games has been terrible. Flynn needs the ball handed to him on a plate because he doesn't know when or where to run or how to make space for others. We had to wait until the 65th minute for Healy to make an intelligent run after he came on and spent his time running away from the ball. Hard for the players out the field to let it in without good movement inside. O’Flaherty and Tyrell started higher up the pitch but Flats was just standing there in the middle. When James Kavanagh played that role he started on the sideline and ran across the pitch or diagonally to make space for the pass and to run into. Flats was running towards his own goal in a straight line and was easily stopped by the excellent Daly.

The deterioration in these 2 areas is an indictment of the coaching they are getting. One wonders whether O’Neill is doing all the coaching by choice or financial constraints impinge on the ability to put together his backroom team. But he needs to step back and delegate because he is missing important details. Changes need to be made to the backroom team, he needs coaches not advisors.

Mistakes made earlier in the year in terms of player evaluation and panel selection have come back to haunt us as well. Everyone has their own issues but for me the treatment of Luke Flynn stands out. He was tried at full-back for one O’Byrne Cup game and was played there for the under 23s as well. Whatever about club level, at inter-county level he’s never going to be a full-back because he hasn’t got the reactions or natural defensive instincts. I don’t know whether it is O’Neill or Flanagan’s idea to play him there but he could be a serious midfielder for us in years to come and should have been tried there. Lord knows we could have done with the option yesterday.

A few years ago Leper took 3 months unpaid leave to speed up the healing process from groin surgery to be right for the championship. It’s the kind of dedication some of our younger players don’t have. You get the feeling with a couple of them that as long as they have their groupies and a few pints football doesn’t mean as much to them as it should. One of the gym sessions they do each week is in their own time unsupervised. Reports back would indicate some players not exactly pushing themselves to the limit in those sessions. Pretty disheartening to see a couple of the injured players laughing and joking outside Croke Park after the Clare defeat. The principle that alcohol inhibits the body’s natural recovery processes seems an anathema to some of the players when they pick up injuries.

I wouldn’t slag the development squads. We went 18 years without reaching a Leinster minor final and have reached 4 of the last 7. When we have been strong in recent years, there is a clear link to prior underage success. The Leinster minor wins of 87 and 91 and Leinster under 21 win in 92 gave us a huge number of players for the 98 and 2000 teams complemented by experienced heads like Sos, Davy Dalton, McCreery and Declan Kerrigan. We got a huge number of players from the under 21 squads of 04 and 05 and they were the backbone of the 09 – 11 teams complemented by older players like JD, Dermot, Roli and, initially, Rainbow and Killian Brennan. Our more talented players are mostly under 25 and there are no natural leaders among the older players. We reaped what we sowed with our dismal under age performances in the previous decade. Look at the minor record from 04 – 09, under 21 from 07 – 12. Then look at the record books. The number of first round defeats in those years was historically bad for us. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be aiming for better at senior level this year but it means the management team need to have the team prepared extremely well (and they’re not) because we can’t get by on raw talent.

One of those under 21 first round defeats was in Mullingar 6 years ago. 3 point loss but they kicked about 20 wides that day and out-played us all over the field. Half of that Westmeath team plus one of the subs played yesterday and nearly all of their team are in the 25 – 29 age group. It’s arrogant to think that any Kildare team should be able to beat them. Yeah they mess up in the league but when all their players are fit they have better individuals than we do without our injured players.

Underage players losing the run of themselves because they are on a county panel didn’t start with the development squads and won’t end there either. 20 years ago I had a county minor telling me I didn’t deserve to be on the same pitch as a county man like him in a ‘clash’ in a club game. Big deal.

After the league I said it would be the championship that O’Neill was judged on. The championship isn’t over but the verdict can be delivered. O’Neill’s thought process about tactics, panel selection and backroom composition need a drastic re-think. The younger players need to demand more of themselves and realise that mailing it in during the year gets exposed in the championship.
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:45 pm

Great, great post.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:55 pm

We can write pages and pages of stuff here and the management team can come up with as many excuses as they want but in simple terms 'if players are not willing firstly to do absolutely everything it takes to win his own personal battles in a game then the entire team is at nothing as a whole' - then tactics / game plans etc. count for nothing
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:00 pm

Wow what can you say that hasn't been said? I couldnt go yesterday as my wife is due a baby. We were hoping with the excitement of the ireland game and Kildare on telly might speed up the labour but after watching that crap I say the baby is going to stay in until after the qualifiers. Those players should feck off to a pub next weekend in the middle of nowhere drink themselfs stupid talk about things as we all know you become braver louder it might just bring them out of there little shell that they are in.
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