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 Kildare v westmeath

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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:40 pm

You make some good points lilly8. I personally think that the some club players like to blame that fact that they dont have there county players as a reason for the club not going well but if they pushed on and put in a bit more effort then maybe the club would improve. Not every club player but definitely some.

The current system that kildare are playing is not new to kildare as far as i can see. Yes its a bit more obvious as you see the 2 half forwads sprinting back and sitting infrount of the full back line. Didnt McGeeney and Jason Ryan do something similar?

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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:31 pm

@Jim I think some people do but most realise a balance needs to be found for the benefit of all parties. It's in the last 10 years that the availability has become a major issue and once 1 county go down a road and have a little success the majority will follow. Someone needs to take control of fixtures at national level but change is desperately difficult to push through.
So do you think that if the county players played more with the club that the kildare senior football team would be better? That my question and I'd be interested to hear wh8people think

On this question - I believe if county players really wanted to play for their clubs and had a passion for their clubs then this would benefit the county - as people have said on here not too many county players were outstanding in the last round of Club Championship games which means they are holding back/not interested or not better than most of the rest of the players ?
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:57 pm

I agree with that Micky even though Cian said differently he said that they were all brilliant.  But that's more to do with the character of the player. Look at the performance of Ronan Sweeney for Moorefield down the years he gave his club the same respect as he gave Kildare.
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shoutitout
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:15 pm

Didn't post till now but have read through all the post and the biggest shock for me after the match has being the response on here. Even going back under the old forum I cant remember a time that we lost a match and didn't blame the ref (we could have this time with the late goal not standing) or that it was such a persons fault for not doing A, B or C!!!! This time we all know the blame is on the manager and players as a unit.

There are possibly 40 people on this forum that take Kildare football very serious. Each of us would have loved to have puled on the white jersey but were not good enough but and this is the BUT I am sure we would have giving everything for the cause. Hell we give everything for the cause in the stand we would definitely give it on the pitch. I don't believe 90% of the current panel will ever give it all and the 10% that will/did are nearly at the end of their career. My reason for saying this is the younger lads coming through and this is not just in Kildare are quiet happy to pull on a jersey (club or county) and go out and have a kick about. They will get more joy out of doing the best trick or flick on the pitch than winning the actual game. Its not that long ago I started playing ball at a competitive level and the only thing that mattered was winning. Yes when you are a child its all good to have fun and say that everyone's a winner but these are not kids anymore this is about winning.

OK not everyone can win but you can do everything in your power to try and win. Run faster, hit harder, jump higher, kick longer....hell just want it more that the lad beside you. Just don't think these young lads will ever do that.


On a side note (after saying that about the players) I don't believe the players owe us anything. It was us that decided to follow the team. I know no player asked me to support them anyway. If we don't like what we are seeing then simply don't go to the matches but there is no need to abuse the players personally. Not saying anyone on here did.

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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:24 pm

It's a good question jim, and whether it would improve things or not it's at least a boost to the club team when the "county player " is available to play.. as others have said it does no harm in other counties.. roly was indeed a fella who always gave his all and still does.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:40 pm

Watching the replay of the game made me think of Darragh Ó Sé a few years back. Was in the car with him after An Gaeltacht lost a league game towards end of their campaign that didn't change anything as they were mid-table. He didn't say a word during the two and a half hour drive such was the utter fury at losing. This a multiple All Ireland intercounty winner. Our lads have won nothing and while I can't see into the dressing room or bus home, their performance showed me it won't have bothered them. Of course Ó Sé had more talent than our panel combined, but he also had a desperation not to lose that we don't have. That's the worst part in all of this as while you can forgive natural ability, you cannot forgive the other half of the equation. And this is one of those areas that's about show-me-don't-tell-me.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:48 pm

It would improve club games no doubt but lets be honest we all want kildare to be successful. The people involved in county teams and need to start developing charter over talent then we might see some change.

Thats what makes great players great its their character not their talent.  Everyone states how great JD was, a one in a generation type player an inspirational player but his character is what made him great. You always knew what you'd get even on day he played poorly his efford and will to win was always evident  . Playing for his club it was the same. No matter what jersey he wore you knew what you were going to get.


Last edited by jim on Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:53 pm

jim wrote:
You make some good points lilly8. I personally think that the some club players like to blame that fact that they dont have there county players as a reason for the club not going well but if they pushed on and put in a bit more effort then maybe the club would improve. Not every club player but definitely some.

The current system that kildare are playing is not new to kildare as far as i can see. Yes its a bit more obvious as you see the 2 half forwads sprinting back and sitting infrount of the full back line. Didnt McGeeney and Jason Ryan do something similar?


Correct - it's not the system that's the problem, it's the execution. When Kildare were at their best of recent times between 2009-2011, they would have three runners. Against Westmeath, Kildare might have had one isolated runner and even at that, he wasn't going at pace. But one runner off the shoulder is useless.
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moatesports
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:02 pm

how many players are there who are permanent subs and hardly get a look in at county level and still cannot play with club ,some of these lads are going backwards when they return to clubs they are like athletes not footballers no football just training i know one guy who is club captain and appears once a month its time to stop this and be like kilkenny play the club game and toughen up
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:17 pm

But its also the case where players are available and dont play.
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Lily8
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:50 pm

I do think it'd be worth it in future to try get a better balance between club and county for the players and see what happens.

As someone said the guys that are on the panel who aren't making the starting 15/20 can end up getting no competitive football for months sometimes. Also some say county players can't play for their clubs because they risk getting injured yet more often than not when one of our lads get injured you hear "he took a knock in training."

Then sometimes they're officially "free" to play for their clubs but some don't turn up or say they're carrying an injury etc and it doesn't happen anyway. It might not improve the standard of our county players a lot but it'd be worth a try to get a better balance between club and county rather than continuing the way it is.

This isn't just under Cian O'Neill of course, it's been this way for years.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:43 am

Think part of county players playing a lot of games with their club means that they have to shine every time other wise they wouldn't stay part of the county panel as other club players would get looked at.. if that makes sense

that also would generate a ruthless mentality in a player....

The players are too insulated in Hawkfield which has nearly turned into a club in its own right... and they are constantly being told how good they are and the bringing out excuses when we don't win..
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umpireonditch
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:16 am

If there was one player on the Kildare panel who would be have the required work rate, intelligence and stamina for the 'transition' system it would be Paidi O'Neill.

Kildare managers always seem to think they don't need Paidi but soon discover he is irreplaceable on the team. No player is as selfless as him.
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teedee
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:43 am

i thoroughly agree with you! paidi has been a great servant to kildare over the yrs, but the fact we are are calling for paidi to start, just shows where we are at the moment!
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:04 am

umpireonditch wrote:
If there was one player on the Kildare panel who would be have the required work rate, intelligence and stamina for the 'transition' system it would be Paidi O'Neill.

Kildare managers always seem to think they don't need Paidi but soon discover he is irreplaceable on the team. No player is as selfless as him.

He was alway on Jason Ryans team and McGeeney s teams was he not. I agree with your point though
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:42 pm

teedee wrote:
i thoroughly agree with you! paidi has been a great servant to kildare over the yrs, but the fact we are are calling for paidi to start, just shows where we are at the moment!

Agree, and if so what position would he play in ?.
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umpireonditch
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:31 pm

I'd play him half forward. He is only 30 this year. Same age as Paul Flynn...
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:16 am

umpireonditch wrote:
I'd play him half forward. He is only 30 this year. Same age as Paul Flynn...

Big ask for him to play the defend and attack role. . Although no worse than asking emmet or tyrell to.
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umpireonditch
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:44 am

His stamina has never been suspect.
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:42 pm

Paidi would run all day... I presume the issue with him is lack of acceleration - he'd be anywhere in that middle eight. They tried him inside early in the league but he didn't have the gas to get out.

The most honest, selfless, industrious player - physical too. He'd run the lines, cover the ground.

The thing about the transition though is committing to it.

Saw it in Portlaoise again yesterday. In the first half, Armagh were trying to go long but it was aimless - apart from that though, when they carried, they were lone wolves, laboured and slow.

In the second half, they committed to the running game and had at least two guys around the carrier and guys coming from deep at pace. They were a completely different outfit.

Kildare just do it too slowly and in not enough numbers.

So Paidi can't be an answer on his own but he'll be putting in tackles at one end, tracking runners - and at the other, offering himself as an attacking option. And he'll do it all day long.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:07 pm

umpireonditch wrote:
His stamina has never been suspect.

Agree he has a terrific engine. . I was as Ogie stated refering to that burst of speed required, especially for the 2 wing forward positions.. Imo the best suited to those positions are p cribben, Houli or mcnally. . Paudie is certainly a fella who can link the play very well, and also works his preverbials off.
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:08 pm

Paudie mightn't be an automatic on our best 15 any more but with Feely, Flynn and Cribbin out the last day, I was shocked not to see him get game time. I don't think him and Alan Smith would have done our chances any harm whatsoever.
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:05 pm

There's no reason that the wing-forwards in our system have to be defenders by trade. I reckon Paidi and Cathal McNally could do the tracking back that is required and would offer more going forward. And surely Paidi would be a better option than Fergal Conway in midfield?
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lillyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v westmeath   Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:38 pm

I think the Westmeath match was one where the reputation of anyone who didn't play went up. Tracking is all very well but it's putting in the tackles that's letting us down as a team. I do agree however that forwards should be able to carry out that role. Westmeath knew what was coming and used their wing backs to good effect. Hopefully there's more imagination and variation against Offaly
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