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 Mayo V Kildare

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Xavi
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:22 am

KILL BILL wrote:
Agreed JJ, exactly my thoughts, scoreline somewhat flattering for Mayo, some signs of promise for the future,  disasterous defending though, playing open football is the only way forward.......


Open football? The biggest myth and misconception in Football nowadays is that teams like Dublin, Mayo,  Tyrone and Kerry play "open football".

They defend in numbers turn over opposition and attack in numbers,  the transition from defence to attack is seemless and quick.  Our massive massive failing against Wexford and Weatmeath was that when we dispossessed them we were slow and ponderous and too leteral coming out .

It may have looked like we played open football today but in actually fact we functioned a lot better with out transition.  We often had McNally,  Conway ,Kelly , Flaherty and midfielders back defending and breaking .

We need to develop this further
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:02 am

Any new manager/coach would really need at least two years...better days ahead folks........we'll leave it there so......

ps good luck to our Minors tomorrow.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:50 am

A nine point defeat to a shockingly poor Mayo team is our best performance of the season - says it all really. I can't overstate how bad and undisciplined Mayo were. I heard the usual delusion among their fans -  "we've found our form again etc etc".. Have ye fuck.. If that was Dublin or Kerry they'd have racked up 5-25 or thereabouts against a Kildare defence that has learned little or nothing since last summer. 2-14 conceded v Offaly and 2-17 today. Says it all. And yet we cleaned Mayo out at midfield and you felt at 0-6 to 0-5 that Mayo were starting to get doubts and run out of ideas.

But of course Hylo has to act the big man and throw what little weight he has around and coughs up a throw ball when we had a free out. Mayo's dander rises and a goal follows a minute later.  A few minutes later their lad waltzes through without a hand on him from the 45m line. Second goal.

Just so Kildare.

The first 20 minutes was a nightmare unfolding - player after player heading straight for the middle into contact, losing the ball and Mayo end up with a score. Brainless stuff as said above.

So yes the second half was better and at least we didn't do a "Kerry" and hung in to the bitter end. But make no mistake - Mayo were spluttering badly but knew the game was won. They're operating a few notches below their recent best.

I don't normally advocate a clear out after a championship season but now I think the time is right for wholesale squad changes. I believe we've a core group who have enough experience now to build a team around. Most of those are the 2013 under-21s. I'd build a team around a core of Donnellan, Doyle, Conway, Moolick, Feely, J Byrne, D Flynn, Cribbin, N Kelly and N Flynn. If Paddy Brophy happened to finish up in Oz that would be a huge bonus. I'd like to see Fogarty back as well. Hyland also has plenty to offer but not at FB and he need to focus on marking his man not this ridiculous mouthing and pushing and shoving.

If I were O'Neill I'd jettison the following : P Kelly, C FitPatrick, H McGrillen, M O'Flaherty, E Bolton, K Murnaghan, Daryl Flynn, E O'Flaherty, E Callaghan, P O'Neill, A Smith, A Tyrell, McNally

and look to bring in some of the recent minors such as Mescal, L Flynn, McConnell, Sherry, W Fitzpatrick, McMonagle, McCormack.

We need a radically new back line and I'd be inclined to try Conway at FB or maybe Byrne, two of our most improved players this year. We need more physicality back there. Maybe Powderly and Mescall at 2 and 4.

Ps as stated above fair play to Fionn Dowling who gave a brilliant display in the second half. He'd have been on my hit list above but showed the potential he has tonight.

PPS So sad to see K Cribbin coming off injured again. Hope it's not a recurrence of his cruciate.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:38 pm

Expect to get a bit of heat over this post, but here goes.

Echo everything Crofter has said above. Taking into account that Mayo are a shadow of their former selves, I thought this was a very poor performance by Kildare, and I have been seriously underwhelmed by Cian O'Neill's first season in charge.

Yes we showed a bit of heart in the second half - the minimum I would expect after last year's disgraceful collapses v Dublin and Kerry - but this game was over at half-time. The structural flaws and poor tackling in our defence have not been rectified. The O'Byrne Cup and League were completely wasted and we somehow arrived in July without a settled gameplan or system - not good enough.

I genuinely think we're going nowhere and we are, effectively, back to the Padraig Nolan / John Crofton days of moral victories. I have seen nothing this season to suggest we won't struggle in Division 2 next year and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we are relegated.

Ironically, this is happening at the same time we are producing more underage talent than at any time in the past 25 years. I think there is serious potential in Kildare over the next decade, but we really need to get our shit together and get brutally honest with ourselves if we're to make real progress.

It will take the right person to mould all of these talented young players into a proper team and, on the evidence so far, Cian O'Neill is not that man. That's not to say I know who is - but I have seen no indicators this season to suggest we are on the path to becoming a top team.

There's a nice optimistic post for you!
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MD
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:50 pm

Disappointing end to an underwhelming first season under Cian. I have to say I expected more, not All ireland final winners but a team with a clear direction and plan in place of where we are going. It appears to me that Cian is actually still getting to grips with the managerial gig and maybe only finding his feet but I dont know if that is excusable or not. Second half was good but as previously stated maybe Mayo took their foot of the gas slightly.

There is for sure a talented bunch that need to be brought in the right direction. I would not be looking for Cians head whatsoever and I dont think that is going to happen anyway but a serious rebuild and a clear plan is needed for next year. I personally thought midfield contested very well and forwards held their own against a good Mayo team. Full back line needs a complete revamp. I would argue that the whole 2-4 is needs new players and the only one who could possibly hold their place is Hyland. Positives to take from today but if we are to be ruthless, we still lost by 9 points. Lets hope the minors assure that our summer goes into August and we can support them.
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Cilldara_2000
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:37 pm

A 9 point defeat when Mayo were pulling up for the entire second half (or as HauntedGraffiti said, they're just a shadow of their former selves) and some people here are optimistic or can see the positives. SMFH.

We still have no idea how to defend against teams running at us and we still have no idea how to attack in a wave up the field. I'm bloody sick of seeing Kildare players at all levels taking the ball into challenges and losing it. And even when Mayo had all but left the field in the second half there were still several times we had lads taking frees or looking to make a footpass looking up and seeing no run and ending up passing it laterally or backwards.

I'll go with Crofter and advocate a clear out. Let the young lads at it and get somebody in who will concentrate on the following: tackling and passing before running into the challenge. And a few runners off the shoulders when a man's in possession. All these nominal forwards jogging around inside our own half doing no tackling or marking could at least make themselves useful for running up the field looking for the ball when we're in possession.

Given where the lads' heads seem to be at times, IE the complete collapses and the lack of self belief, I think we need a motivating manager who concentrates more on the psychological side of things rather than any fancy tactics or fitness plans.
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:47 pm

I think it shows how far expectations have slipped that a lot of people aren't too disappointed with a 9 point defeat.

The most disappointing aspect of he first half was the way we coughed up possession when Mayo put any sort of pressure on us. We did surprisingly well at midfield (I'd say we must have won at least 75% of the kick-outs) and yet we were out of the game at half time. This shows how poor we were in possession and our defensive problems have not been fixed despite a few brave performances. We improved in the 2nd half but I thought we were very naive to think that we could profit from just lamping balls into the full-forward line against a top team like Mayo.

I thought Kevin Feely, Fergal Conway and Johnny Byrne stood up to the plate last night. I have to give credit where it's due to Fionn Dowling - I thought he was excellent in the 2nd half. Some players went missing though which was very disappointing. I don't think it would be right to have a major clear-out though. Some of he players on Crofter's out list still have a bit to offer, and some players on the in list aren't good enough yet, IMO.

Hard to know if we've made any progress this year. Last year we were better at beating the weaker teams. Last night we were a bit more resilient against a better team but Mayo took their foot of the gas in the 2nd half so it's hard to be sure where we are. I have been disappointed with the quality of coaching to be honest. The difference in the standard of tackling between ourselves and Mayo was massive. And our attacking play is way off the standard we need. I think we need to make further progress in the league and challenge for a place in Division 1 but I'd be worried we'd be fighting relegation again based on this years performances.
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jj
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:29 pm

Some people here seem to think that a performance was going to magic it's way out of the hat last night against Mayo and that all our problems could be washed away in the process. Anybody who has seen us a few times this year will know that was never going to happen.
I do however take plenty of positives out of last night and I don't think Mayo sauntered through 2nd half as some suggest.
Our issues are going to take a couple of years to rectify in my view and for some reason, probably delusional, I feel we have turned a corner last night. Largely down to the contribution of our younger players.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:02 pm

Bemoaning the performance doesn't imply one was expecting us to beat Mayo or get within 3 or 4 points JJ. I love your optimism about turning a corner. The only sliver of positivity from last night was we didn't collapse after half time. But make no mistake Mayo were not good enough / interested enough to turn the screw. A team in decline and struggling under the pressure of having to justify their actions last autumn. A team that's run out of excuses.

I didn't comment on Cian O'Neill earlier. I too have been very disappointed with his first year having been delighted with his appointment. Other than getting promoted we seem to have wasted a lot of the year and tactically haven't improved in any aspect of our play. Not one. Nada.

But when I step back and look at the quality of player available and the psychological mess left by the last few years I have some sympathy with the man. How could he legislate for an inter county full back charging at a Mayo player in front of the referee 30m from his own goal when we've just won a free out and only 2 points between the teams?

I don't think changing managers every year is a good idea and I'd give him at least one more to try to bring through some of these younger players. But he has to clear out those players whose legs or minds are gone. See list above.

Some positives to finish with:
- Fergal Conway vastly improved and more influential this year. Full back material?
- Johnny Byrne
- Kevin Feely competed very well in the middle and caused problems at FF. Pity he doesn't have a turn of pace (same as Moolick)
- Neil Flynn has had a decent first year. Can kick a score from play. Free taking seems to have gone a bit erratic though
- we've still got Cribbin and Flynn to come back in next year although the latter has now missed 2 championships with injury and you wonder is he going to be able to regain the level of power and fitness he had
- Eoin Doyle was better last night although he's had a strangely subdued championship. Was expecting a lot more from him

Div 2 is going to be a big step up considering how average we've been against Div 3 opponents. If we do have a transition period as I suggest those players with 3 or 4 years experience are really going to have to step up.

Oh well roll on the minors
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Gaa1928
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:12 pm

It's all very well saying lets have a 'clear out' but let's not forget the amount of players who rejected the opportunity when asked to join the squad this year and the number of players who also left the panel to concentrate on club football.

It should be noted that panel number 30 does the very same amount of training panel number 3 does but without the game time.
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Lily8
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:12 pm

jj wrote:
Some people here seem to think that a performance was going to magic it's way out of the hat last night against Mayo and that all our problems could be washed away in the process. Anybody who has seen us a few times this year will know that was never going to happen.
I do however take plenty of positives out of last night and I don't think Mayo sauntered through 2nd half as some suggest.
Our issues are going to take a couple of years to rectify in my view and for some reason,  probably delusional, I feel we have turned a corner last night. Largely down to the contribution of our younger players.

+1

People need to be realistic. We couldn't beat Westmeath a few weeks ago so beating Mayo in their home ground wasn't going to happen. There are still lots of positives to take though. Feely was outstanding last night. Conway, Byrne and Dowling also stood out. We have new players on the panel this year like Tyrrell, Healy and Neil Flynn who are only starting out as senior intercounty footballers so need more time. We have been missing the best player we had last year, Paul Cribbin and Daniel Flynn throughout the championship. Both big losses.

The biggest negative for me this season is that we desperately need a full back. No disrespect to Hyland. He can be great but he's not a full back in my opinion. The full back line have been badly exposed too many times this year. When they continue to follow their men out the field they're playing straight into the opposition's hands by leaving a clear path for a goal. Paul Mescal and Darren Maguire have been great in the full back line for the U21s over the last few years. Hopefully they may get involved next year.

I do think some clear out is needed (would not include McNally in that at all though, surprised to see him mentioned). We have so many lads on the bench who are now in or fastly approaching their mid 30s. Some have given brilliant service to Kildare over the years but it's time to bring in fresh blood now.

Anyone hear how Keith Cribbin is? Felt so sorry for him coming off injured against last night. He really has had it tough over the last few years.

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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 9:10 pm

Great to see all the experts coming out now giving us no chance last night. Well done!

Could not believe the amount of times we took the ball into contact around the middle, something that's thought to u10s.

Fair play to Feely, Byrne, Conway and Dowling, the few who took any sort of responsibility. Holding my hands up on the latter two.

Emmet Bolton, our best player over the last ten years apart from JD, was a sorry sight. Kicking a player after they waltz through our defence and stick it in the net.

Houdini would have been proud of Niall Kelly's disappearing act last night.

The final whistle last Saturday week was met with fist pumps and hugging after barely beating a piss poor Offaly side, that's where Kildare are at now. Get used to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:01 pm

Hard to argue with crofters list, but are the young lads gonna commit ?.. it's a full time huge commitment with little reward at the moment.. on top of that, no life, no club football, no social.. maybe some of them have had a break now and will be willing.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:08 pm

Maybe we expected too much from our manager in his first year. Its difficult to change a lot when your are using most of the same players from the previous years. There is often a sense of loyalty to older players who put so much effort in during the McGeeney years. Its easy be ruthless when you are Cody who has a conveyor belt of talent every year.
Next year will be the true test of O'Neill, will he have the courage to jettison a lot of players and the ability to convince younger players to join up? Can he coach a team to tackle properly?
There are plenty of young players from the U21's who are good enough to come on board next year. They have the potential to improve into very good senior players unlike the older players who can't deliver at this level anymore. The return of Cribben and Flynn and maybe Brophy and Huley could transform the team quickly.
For now its over to the minors and the club championships to give us some hope.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:14 pm

It's hard to know how to feel after it. We're in a transitional period but for a supporter it feels that way since the end of 2011 so it's a bit hard to take. The encouraging aspect is that we didn't quit last night but our lack of quality was exposed during that period before half time. We made some critical errors and Division 1 teams will punish those every time.

It's clear that we need better defenders and we have to hope that there are a few coming through. Mescal and Shea Ryan are two I would be watching closely in the club championship with a view to next year's league. Hopefully Houlihan will improve with the experience of this year under his belt. I'd also like to see whether Eoin Doyle could do a job at corner back. We're not too badly stocked at midfield and our forwards are ok at the moment.

Overall O'Neill's first season has been underwhelming. Getting out of Division 3 was important but it was probably a wasted opportunity in terms of the lack of strategical development. The strategy we tried to implement against Westmeath and Wexford came out of the blue and the players didn't look comfortable with it. To be fair to him it was his first year in management and I'm sure he will have learned a lot from it.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:29 pm

Is it likely that Brophy &Hurley will return next year? I thought they were well settled in Australia?
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:06 am

The problem is very simple to see. Either get a big name in or a respected figure in Kildare , eg Glen Ryan. If Kildare choose to keep appointing managers that are clearly out of their depth then all the work that is done at underage level, from the U16s beating Dublin this year to the minors today, will go to waste.

Kildare with this setup will go down to div 3 next year.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:27 am

Gaa1928 wrote:
Ok, here goes, I think that the seniors will lose by the same amount that the minors win by.   Work that one out. Shocked Shocked Shocked

Wasn't too far out. Shocked Shocked Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:00 am

I don't you'd have to have been Mohamed to work that out. afro
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:20 am

just on some of the stuff written about a new full back line needed I reckon it's a bit harsh. Hyland has had a very good year there as has Peter kelly. Ollie Lyons held cillian o'connor scoreless from play yesterday and has been excellent in the championship. If Powderly or mescal were good enough they'd be in there
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:39 am

Have to agree with West side. Those players are not bad it's just they ain't playing for their manager.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:50 am

Crofter I'd add ray cahill and rory Feely to that list.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:59 am

Where to now? I really don't know what to say. Beaten by 9 points in the championship is a bad bad day no matter what way you analysis it. Its hard to believe how far we have slipped since 2013. We were beaten by Tyrone by 2 point in 2013 and it was the end of the road for the management and the team. Now look at us. It's so disappointing.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:02 am

Left it until tonight to post as I was not in the best form last night. Not because we lost but because of the typical shite we served up in the first half.
5 of the Mayo first 6 points came from us running into contact in their half back line and coughing up the ball. You would think after the first three times they would cop on, but as some one said we must have some of the thickest footballers in the country.
Hyland needs pulling aside as well as being pulled from full back.
Ran thirty yards to push a Mayo player in the back while losing us a pressure reliving free kick but wouldn't put in a tackle for the second goal which was made by a run that started downtown. Criminal and infuriating.

When McGeeney was in charge we would play teams and physically we would blow them away. Now our lads are the ones being thrown around. How many times did one of ours get dumped on his arse or shrugged off like a child. You would wonder what we are doing in the gym.

We cleaned them out in Midfield and yet did nothing with most of that possession. Again leadership was an issue when things started to go wrong. No one to slow it down or pull lads back into position.

A couple of our big players went missing again and few gave reached the end of the line. We have talented underage players, we need to start using them.

Overall I would give the season 4/10. We got promoted but the championship was a disaster. Definitely a clear out needed if certain players as they have had enough chances.

Thank God for the minors.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:07 am

Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?
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