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 Mayo V Kildare

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fone
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:20 am

flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?
with all your gaa knowledge over past 30 years u man for job
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flourman
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:24 am

fone wrote:
flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?
with all your gaa knowledge  over past 30 years u man for job

Thanks Fone, but an endorsement from a fella that would rather go to the Curragh races than watch Kildare, wouldn't hold much water with me
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fone
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:32 am

flourman wrote:
fone wrote:
flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?
with all your gaa knowledge  over past 30 years u man for job

Thanks Fone, but an endorsement from a fella that would rather go to the Curragh races than watch Kildare, wouldn't hold much water with me
at least I play game
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flourman
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:35 am

fone wrote:
flourman wrote:
fone wrote:
flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?
with all your gaa knowledge  over past 30 years u man for job

Thanks Fone, but an endorsement from a fella that would rather go to the  Curragh races than watch Kildare, wouldn't hold much water with me
at least I play game

lol! lol!
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fone
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:37 am

flourman wrote:
fone wrote:
flourman wrote:
fone wrote:
flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?
with all your gaa knowledge  over past 30 years u man for job

Thanks Fone, but an endorsement from a fella that would rather go to the  Curragh races than watch Kildare, wouldn't hold much water with me
at least I play game

lol! lol!
did u play gaa
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flourman
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:40 am

.. Not to the same level as an athlete like you ..
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:42 am

fone wrote:
flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?
with all your gaa knowledge  over past 30 years u man for job

No I'm not anyways
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jimmers
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:46 am

flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?

From my reading, if they are, they're in a very small minority. Consensus appears to be that O'Neill has been underwhelming in his first year but should at least be given a second year.
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Caprea
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:09 am

flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?

people in the kildare dressing room might like the idea from what i hear. He probably deserves another year but over league and championship there is no getting away from the fact that Kildare didn't produce one impressive performance all year. That's not good.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:13 am

Caprea wrote:
flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?

people in the kildare dressing room might like the idea from what i hear. He probably deserves another year but over league and championship there is no getting away from the fact that Kildare didn't produce one impressive performance all year. That's not good.

Hard to argue with that point
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:05 am

Westside wrote:
just on some of the stuff written about a new full back line needed I reckon it's a bit harsh. Hyland has had a very good year there as has Peter kelly. Ollie Lyons held cillian o'connor scoreless from play yesterday and has been excellent in the championship. If Powderly or mescal were good enough they'd be in there

Kelly did not have a good year. I agree Hyland is a good player but not best suited to full back. I never suggested dropping Lyons (although to your point C O'Connor is unfit and a shadow of the player his brother is). I'd play Lyons at 10 or 12 actually a-la the McHughs with Donegal.

Mescall and Powderley might not be good enough but we need to try new players or perhaps give the likes of Conway Byrne or Doyle a go in the FB line.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:06 am

SeamusMurphy wrote:
Crofter I'd add ray cahill and rory Feely to that list.

Wouldn't argue with that although Cahill was given a chance to come back in and wouldn't/couldn't.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:11 am

jimmers wrote:
flourman wrote:
Are people on here really advocating for a new manager?

From my reading, if they are, they're in a very small minority. Consensus appears to be that O'Neill has been underwhelming in his first year but should at least be given a second year.

+1
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:21 am

Most people happy when we beat Offaly by five and most people upset when we lose to Mayo by nine. But our level didn't change in a week - Offaly and Mayo are so far apart, you might as well be playing a different sport. I think a lot of people don't factor in the quality of the opposition when assessing how we played. I'd take more from the performance away against Mayo than sneaking past Offaly at home in an  entertaining shoot out.

Personally I thought there were a few green shoots on Saturday evening. Two horror spells, the first 10 minutes of the game and the last seven minutes of the first half cost is. But for the rest of the game, I thought we were slightly the better side. I thought our strategy and play on kickouts at both ends was superior and I thought we didn't look like conceding a goal apart from that horror spell.

People look at that 2-3 blitz as evidence our defence hasn't improved but both those goals came from horrific turnovers. No defence can cope with that against good opposition. We want everyone to pour forward when we win possession but if we give a soft turnover in that situation, of course we're going to be exposed.

Kevin Feely was magnificent and if it wasn't for Diarmuid O'Connor, he would have been man of the match. Johnny Byrne was superb as well for a man in his first year starting, a couple of sloppy turnovers aside. At one point in the second half, he had more possessions racked up than anyone else. Fergal Conway, someone I didn't rate, has come on a long way.  

So I saw improvement in the gameplan and in individual performances. We didn't look like winning the game from the half-hour mark, but realistically, we were never going to. They just have better players and a better side. Look at someone like Boyle, for example, who was just inspirational yet again. It's unrealistic to expect our young lads to be at that kind of level yet and in that sense, when it came down to it, it was men against boys.  

But someone like Boyle is a lesson in how you can improve. He was off the panel, back playing club football in his early-to-mid 20s when Horan took over. He's gone from that to one of the best players in the country, improving a bit each year. It takes time and O'Neill can't wave a magic wand and produce players like that out of the blue. But if our lads improve a bit year on year - and there's evidence, to me at least, that some of them are on the right track - we'll get better results.

I'd be happy to give O'Neill another two years. If we have a bit of luck and get our best players on the field - and Cribbin, Flynn, Hurley and Brophy are most crucial here - we'll go places.

Division two is crucial to us next year, almost more important than championship, considering I don't think we'll be competitive with Dublin yet. If we contend for promotion next spring, you'll know we're on the right track.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:47 pm

Ohtoohtobe wrote:
Most people happy when we beat Offaly by five and most people upset when we lose to Mayo by nine. But our level didn't change in a week - Offaly and Mayo are so far apart, you might as well be playing a different sport. I think a lot of people don't factor in the quality of the opposition when assessing how we played. I'd take more from the performance away against Mayo than sneaking past Offaly at home in an  entertaining shoot out.

Personally I thought there were a few green shoots on Saturday evening. Two horror spells, the first 10 minutes of the game and the last seven minutes of the first half cost is. But for the rest of the game, I thought we were slightly the better side. I thought our strategy and play on kickouts at both ends was superior and I thought we didn't look like conceding a goal apart from that horror spell.

People look at that 2-3 blitz as evidence our defence hasn't improved but both those goals came from horrific turnovers. No defence can cope with that against good opposition. We want everyone to pour forward when we win possession but if we give a soft turnover in that situation, of course we're going to be exposed.

Kevin Feely was magnificent and if it wasn't for Diarmuid O'Connor, he would have been man of the match. Johnny Byrne was superb as well for a man in his first year starting, a couple of sloppy turnovers aside. At one point in the second half, he had more possessions racked up than anyone else. Fergal Conway, someone I didn't rate, has come on a long way.  

So I saw improvement in the gameplan and in individual performances. We didn't look like winning the game from the half-hour mark, but realistically, we were never going to. They just have better players and a better side. Look at someone like Boyle, for example, who was just inspirational yet again. It's unrealistic to expect our young lads to be at that kind of level yet and in that sense, when it came down to it, it was men against boys.  

But someone like Boyle is a lesson in how you can improve. He was off the panel, back playing club football in his early-to-mid 20s when Horan took over. He's gone from that to one of the best players in the country, improving a bit each year. It takes time and O'Neill can't wave a magic wand and produce players like that out of the blue. But if our lads improve a bit year on year - and there's evidence, to me at least, that some of them are on the right track - we'll get better results.

I'd be happy to give O'Neill another two years. If we have a bit of luck and get our best players on the field - and Cribbin, Flynn, Hurley and Brophy are most crucial here - we'll go places.

Division two is crucial to us next year, almost more important than championship, considering I don't think we'll be competitive with Dublin yet. If we contend for promotion next spring, you'll know we're on the right track.

We live in a knee jerk world, moving from one extreme to the other. Thing about division 2 Tyrone won Ulster from it and Galway won Connacht from it. Division 1 has more in common with Leinster than people realise teams are spending so much energy and resources trying to keep up with Dublin and stay competitive that they are burnt out come championship. Think Down but more importantly think Cork, Cavan and Roscommon teams that have had a lot of recent under-age success and I would look at Cavan and Roscommon as role models and templates for Kildare. They would classify their championships as a disaster, it's hard to to keep moving forward and Cavan in particular will fall back.

O'Neill is by no means convincing as a manager and underwhelmed is a fair consensus but talk of a new manager in lunacy. Primary goal of promotion was achieved and we only lost 4 competitive matches all year with the caveat that the league final and Westmeath game were truly awful performances.

Next year is simply be very competitive in Division 2 and consolidate, transition out the older players as discussed, great servants but time stands still for no man, but next year we need to get over our hang up with the Leinster championship and depending on the draw I would like to see a performance and a win over either Meath and Westmeath preferable both and give Dublin a rattle, a proper physical full on rattle.

Also in O'Neill's defence I think he has grown as a manager, as the season progressed and he got to know his players his natural trust of Moorefield players was replaced with a trust in the squad as a whole. Plus he is the first manager to eek a performance from Fionn Dowling to match his talent, that augers well for his man management skills. Would like to see our coaching set augmented with a skills coach that can teach the tackle, Mayo were excellent at tackling the ball and turning it over, something we are quite frankly shit at.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:38 pm

I think tackling is the biggest single aspect of our game that's holding us back. If you think of all the scores we concede through silly frees and letting players run through our defence unchecked (Diarmuid O'Connor's goal) it's clear we have to make big improvements in this area. It looks like the current coaches haven't been able to improve us in this area, so we should be looking to get an outside coach in.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:53 pm

we gave jason ryan a 2nd year look where we are, l.v.g at utd,if players dont want to play for mananger it cant work,do the players didt say it in public they where saying it in the back ground,.he,s not a mananger he,s a fittness coach.does not know what hes doing making it up as he goes a long,,asked 10 under age players to join panel 7 said no 3 did and 2 of them where gone in 2 weeks, sos dowling ,johnny doyle ,dermott earley,antony rainbow,brian murphy,brendan hacket,surley we can make a managment team from them,they know kildare football,and have the respect of players.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:01 pm

O'Neill is going nowhere, he is clearly here for the long haul and we should be patient. The McGeeney era is long gone and some of his players are not the future of Kildare anymore.
Next year we will be playing at a higher level and that will help us to improve. We know we wont get away with the sloppy attitude of Div 3. But two areas that need radical surgery are our tackling and carrying the ball into contact and getting turned over. The intensity of tackling at the highest level is a shock to anyone from Div 3. Its what teams like Dublin and Tyrone do so well. Div 2 is a start and an injection of youth will also help.
There are reasons to be hopeful but only if we make the changes necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:12 pm

spot on wrote:
we gave jason ryan a 2nd year look where we are, l.v.g at utd,if players dont want to play for mananger it cant work,do the players didt say it in public they where saying it in the back ground,.he,s not a mananger he,s a fittness coach.does not know what hes doing making it up as he goes a long,,asked 10 under age players to join panel 7 said no 3 did and 2 of them where gone in 2 weeks,  sos dowling ,johnny doyle ,dermott earley,antony rainbow,brian murphy,brendan hacket,surley we can make a managment team from them,they know kildare football,and have the respect of players.

whilst the jury is still out on O'Neill, he got us promoted in his first year. Jason Ryan got us relegated 2 consecutive years, once as selector and other as manager.

10 u21s I presume you mean asked to join the panel. If 7 of them said no that's fair enough. Cian O'Neill cannot be blamed for that. Brian Murphy the u21 manager is on the sideline with him, lets not forget that.
Now I'm not being a cheerleader for O'Neill but some people really need to get a grip on themselves.

The litmus test is next year and the 3rd year where he has had more time to develop the squad and his tactics.

Being honest your point lost any traction when you mentioned "l.v.g" and "utd".
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:27 pm

spot on wrote:
we gave jason ryan a 2nd year look where we are, l.v.g at utd,if players dont want to play for mananger it cant work,do the players didt say it in public they where saying it in the back ground,.he,s not a mananger he,s a fittness coach.does not know what hes doing making it up as he goes a long,,asked 10 under age players to join panel 7 said no 3 did and 2 of them where gone in 2 weeks,  sos dowling ,johnny doyle ,dermott earley,antony rainbow,brian murphy,brendan hacket,surley we can make a managment team from them,they know kildare football,and have the respect of players.

Just to point out that while the management credentials have still to be proven, Cian O'Neill is much more than a fitness coach, having been football coach in both Mayo and no less a place than Kerry - where it should be also pointed out they played two extra defenders in the D without the ball when they won the All-Ireland. But obviously he had better players to work with so it might take more time to have the impact required here, if he ever does.

Funny seeing Brendan Hackett on that list. He was the biggest joke around 14 months ago after another of the worst performances we have ever seen from a Kildare team.

Anyway, just for the sake of accuracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:43 pm

A bit over the top there Ogie about Mr Hackett. I've seen worst performances from teams coached any managed by some of the names mentioned above and his record speaks for its self. I'd say you may have a bit of a dislike for the man for whatever reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:55 pm

Can't see CO'N going anywhere, hope he will spend this time analysing and getting the strategy ready for next year and it may be the making or breaking of him as a manager, think he needs to get a bit ruthless with a clear out but not as many as people are making out.
If people could say we were in transition we would not be in a bad place but we are not in transition he just carried on from last year that's why I believe what he does over the next few months is key to his management future he is an academic so he was probably always going to take the first year to review.
I taught when he was coming in that we would have a problem with lads bulking up which hasn't happened and the biggest problem for me is that we can't/won't tackle along with some attitudes.
Pressure of captain was too much for Eoin Doyle to me so he underperformed.
Also please can guys stop playing up Dan Flynn as some kind of hero and is going to turn us around when he gets back from his permanent injury, to me I would drop him from the panel as his kind of attitude is what is killing Kildare football at the moment, take aside underage, he has done nothing at adult level and to me is happy to be part of the group without having to do anything.
And before people come on shooting me down on this comment ask yourself this question, 'in a years time we are playing meath or someone in a leinster semi and suddenly he appears at oxygen/Glastonbury or electric picnic the day before in a breach of conduct' -can anyone 100% tell me that wouldn't happen?

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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:21 pm

Pretty sure point re Hackett was to illustrate knee jerk reaction of supporters rather than meant as criticism for a highly successful coach who we are lucky to have...
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:29 pm

Id be pretty certain Dan Flynn would not show up at EP or Glasto on saturday before a Leinster semi if he was fit to play. Also nothing wrong with young lads having a few pints when unavailable to play so long as its not overdone. You need go get real. Life isnt all about GAA. Ask the OSes, probably the greatest Kerry players in thirty years. We have a good crop of talent who didnt want to come in this year.
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PostSubject: Re: Mayo V Kildare   Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:29 pm

A disappointing end to the year that never really sparked to life, but it was not without some hopeful moments. My summary of events:
Cian O'Neill has been successful in terms of league promotion firstly. We got out of that hell hole of a division by not implementing a solid gameplan and using a squad that changed from game to game. That I feel is a huge success, in terms of getting the job done. League final was septic, there's no doubt about it. Our performances throughout the league were patchy much like the championship. We had a similar pattern of play in the majority of those games - we get 5/6 ahead, and lose the lead.

Onto the championship. We saw the first signs of a gameplan in late may against wexford and it was awful awful stuff to see only a leper callaghan and Cian O donoghue point each saved the day (and the woeful shot selection by the opposition). We are all aware that it was pointless to play such a system against a similar team to ours. At least it was tried out though, with the eye obviously on a showdown with dublin.
Alas this did not happen and we wont mention the horror that was the westmeath game. Point to note - it was a replica of some of the league games in terms of gaining a strong lead and then giving it all away.

The offaly game was entertaining and I always felt we were in control even if we were hugely porous at the back. Whether it came from O'Neill himself which I suspect was the case - or the players, at least the positive was "lads go out and express yourselves". That attitude was clearly evident in Newbridge that evening and the likes of Niall Kelly and co were able to show off some skill and they looked like they actually enjoyed their football in contrast to the previous two games. This I feel was a huge positive. The negatives were our concession of goals again but this is a built in problem for many years now. Tackling an area that is in dire need of attention.

Finally the Mayo game. A bad defeat but not as dire as what we have come accustomed to seeing over the last few years.
Negatives firstly - tackling and defending - mayo cut us open on more occasions than the two goals but as mentioned above this is something that has become part of the current set up over the last few years. Management need to badly address this otherwise we will be experiencing the same concession of goals in ever big championship game we play. Our mental collapse for that 10 minute period again is characteristic of the current team and goes without saying needs attention. It shows our lack of leaders on the field - we needed somebody to stand up and say "lads calm it down", but instead mayo got in for another goal. Up until that point we were well in it having weathered the early storm. One other negative would be our ability to cough up possession easily. It seemed that when we took the ball into contact - bolton, johnny byrne and others - we were turned over really easily. These turn overs lead to a goal in one instance but more importantly we lost easy scores through this.

Positives - similar to the offaly game it seemed the message was to give it a go. This has to be seen as a positive; because the message could have been go defensive and stick to gameplan no matter what etc.. at least some fellas were able to express themselves. The emergence of Fionn Dowling at the middle of the field gives great hope as he has not played well for a good number of years. I certainly had my doubts about him but he showed great courage and skill on saturday night. This has to be attributed to good management skills because I ve never seen him play as well in a long time!
We created a lot of chances when the game was in the balance and indeed when we were chasing it completely. Had half of those chances gone over the scoreboard would have been much more respectable. This brings me to another important point - a marquee forward and lack thereof. We are missing Daniel flynn, cribben, not to mention Paddy Brophy and Hurley. The reason I mention this is that taking a positive from it, with even two of these players introduced, the team has a huge advantage. Brophy would be that missing forward that we need but the other three lads would add a huge dimension to the team. So my message is Cian O'neill - get paddy and sean hurley the fuck back to us!!!

Overall there was a good bit of spirit on show in Mayo on saturday. The conclusion and reality was that it was our first division One team or top team that we squared up to in 12 months. To go in fighting like we did in that second half on saturday must be seen as a positive in terms of knowing where we are at in relation to the top teams and what must be done to reach that level. Yes it can be said Mayo took the foot off the pedal but that does not explain our wiping them out at midfield. They are not the force of a few years ago, but they have serious big day experience not to mention some of the best players in the country. My point being we tried as hard as we could against top opposition, ultimately fell short, but there was some light!

My final point is in relation to the crowd. That had to be the worst Kildare crowd I have ever seen. Myself and a few mates actually knew all of our own kildare crowd on the uncovered stand side.Very disappointing to see!
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