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 Kildare Senior Footballers 2017

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Landro88
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:44 am

I don't think anyone will have a problem with too many moorefield in the management side of things but I don't think anyone can argue that there were a lot too many moorefield players on it last year that aren't good enough. Definitely 3 based on the start of the year. Roli will definitely have a big impact. Supposed to have been very good in Waterford and Sligo.
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:30 pm

jim wrote:
Oige  I'm all for eating right and condictioning the body its not important its absolutely vital if you want to be at the top of your game. But it's just 1 ingredient along with so many others. Its like people saying a guy is a great player because he is a skillful player but skill is just another ingredient. Now is 1 more inportant that the other? That's a debate for another day but in my book passion and pride in yourself and desire to win, will lead you to improving all other aspects of your game.
As I said we have the so called best sports science man in the country but I can't see where that has made a difference to the team in the first year.  But I'm sure plenty will disagree with we. ☺

You're not wrong, it's one ingredient - I was just saying it was integral to last Sunday week Jim. Of course without all the other elements, it's useless.

I'll be holding judgement until the end of next year as I said - I know my measurement scale will be different to others but staying in Division 2 would be an excellent start, seeing an evolution in the game plan and building on the performance against the Mayo team that should now be All-Ireland champions would be excellent.

Key to all that though is having the best players fit and available. Because Kildare don't have the depth to be without three or four of their best players.

From what I have heard from players in Sligo and Waterford, first-hand, Roli is a huge addition. He will add that absolute pride and attitude quotient that many are calling for, and is indeed a vital requirement. More than that though, he has been a poster boy throughout his career for doing the right things on and off the pitch, working as hard as he can, doing what needs to be done in every facet of his life to be as good as he could be - and he is an excellent, modern coach as well.
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Botch
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:43 pm

Roli will be a good addition in my opinion too. Hoping the u-21 players can play a part in the league for sure. Actually they definitely should get game time in the league. But its a big step up to senior from u-21. But we do have hope for a lot of the players. I am more worried about what is currently there. I cannot see us near promotion in the league. I see us mid table. And I would be happy enough with that once players are developed further and given time. I also do not see us doing much in Leinster. My big hope for this year is to develop and bed in 5 or 6 players (maybe u-21) as county senior players. Anfd then a nice run in the qualifiers.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:11 pm

Can anyone tell me what is Sports Science in relation to gealic football?
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lillyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:51 am

Great question Jim. Probably means doing training, following food plans that are backed up by reputable research rather that some coach winging it. Of course there's also the theory that's it's all about people creating a niche for themselves
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:03 am

If roli is in, whose out?
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fone
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:17 am

SeamusMurphy wrote:
If roli is in, whose out?
brain Flanagan I hear
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:31 pm

fone wrote:
SeamusMurphy wrote:
If roli is in, whose out?
brain Flanagan I hear

Just Brian Flanagan?
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:42 pm

Any suggestions to Mr o Neill other than who we know who he should be looking at bringing in now that the club season is reaching its conclusion.
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grabber
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:44 am

Jim, the article below might not answer your question directly but should give a rough idea as to the importance etc of sports science in GAA.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/sport/cork-sport/west-cork-native-driving-sports-science-gaa/2532532/
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:30 am

grabber wrote:
Jim, the article below might not answer your question directly but should give a rough idea as to the importance etc of sports science in GAA.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/sport/cork-sport/west-cork-native-driving-sports-science-gaa/2532532/

Very interesting article. Thanks for posting. I suppose the next question that I would ask is if a county has a sports scientist in place. What are the results of this? Or is thar too simple a question?
Does it mean a fitter stronger team or an injury free team ? Is sports science the extra percentage needed when all other attributes are in places like skill and pride and will to win ect.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:27 am

I'd suggest the term "a sport scientist" is wrong gym. There's a team in place. Dublin don't have a background team of 27I believe for no reason, each with expertise in different areas of sports science. That includes empirical measurement of strength, conditioning, fitness and pace rather than running laps; working on specific areas in different positions be it improving jump height, how to wrap a man in the tackle etc, again all measurable; and it goes it psychology as well in terms of decision making, handling pressure and so on. Again on Dublin, a reason they win so many close games, decision making and that doesn't simply come from "Ah this group are goo at it," it's taught through sports science. Would be my take on it essentially.
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grabber
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:41 am

Adding to that S&C coaches, physios, rehabilitation coach etc etc all fall under the team that use components of sports science. It's a very broad term tbh!
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:37 am

But if my memory serves me correct they were in place under Padraig Nolan, John Croften, Kieran McGeeney, Jason Ryan and now Cian O Neill in one way or another and probably increased as time goes on. Mick O Dwyer was know for his non scientific approach but yet he was the only manager , (well to a lesser extent kieran McGeeney) that achieved any success. I just can figure it out. Because the one thing above all else that Micko brought was passion, pride and will to win. He by all accounts was not very good tactically or sports science wasn't brought to the equasion at all.

Some people say that you have to have sports science and I agree but in my humble opion we should be ticking a few more boxes first because I think alot of players both club and county don't know the difference from being stiff and sore and being injured.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:01 am

Micko was around at a time where there was no sports science in GAA and passion could get you over teams, thus his unscientific approach worked with us and Wicklow, thus Paidi losing it worked with Westmeath. But now, they'd be analysed and picked apart. The game has moved on so much in a decade after being stuck in the 1950s for half a century. That's not to say you don't need passion or commitment, of course you do, but it's become part of a much larger puzzle.

PS have a read of this as you'll get an example of what science brings. Not a term just for the sake of it, there is science involved! http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/kieran-shannon-the-hard-questions-mayo-must-ask-to-reach-the-summit-424069.html
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:37 am

TommyKeegan wrote:
Micko was around at a time where there was no sports science in GAA and passion could get you over teams, thus his unscientific approach worked with us and Wicklow, thus Paidi losing it worked with Westmeath. But now, they'd be analysed and picked apart. The game has moved on so much in a decade after being stuck in the 1950s for half a century. That's not to say you don't need passion or commitment, of course you do, but it's become part of a much larger puzzle.


PS have a read of this as you'll get an example of what science brings. Not a term just for the sake of it, there is science involved! http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/kieran-shannon-the-hard-questions-mayo-must-ask-to-reach-the-summit-424069.html

I agree with you Tommy 100% but for all our expertise in sport science has it made us any better? Remember there's probably not a more qualified person in the country than Cian O Neill . So whats our problem?
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:13 am

I think it probably did under McGeeney, no doubt. Ryan's tenure was a mess and I think Cian is trying to pick up the pieces with a very new team with little experience an zero confidence. Maybe I'll be wrong but I'd give him year two and judge him and those sports scientists he surrounds himself with (if we have the money, of course).
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:45 pm

I disagree that we are a team with little experience yes theres a few new lads in the team but thats the same every year.
Confidence is definitely an issue no doubt but again who's job is it to install confidence in team? The artical by Kieran Shannon is excellent but for me it's a combination of a lot of factors sports science being one of them but not the biggest.
For me the article shows the charter of the Mayo players, their willingness to do whatever it takes to win. He talks of the change in the approach of Armagh, in Benny Tierney and Stevie McDonnell but is that sports scientist? or just a willingness to do whatever it takes to be the best you can be.
It takes hours of practice away from the 'bright lights' to achieve this.
I remember Kieran McGeeney saying that what he liked most about John Doyle was what he did off the big stage , in training and the hours he spent on his own. Was it sports science that helped a guy from the middle of the bog who couldn't make any underage kildare teams growing up into one of the top forward in the country? For me it's more to do with his character than sports science. Head down and work hard. Yes you creat an environment where players can develop but honest, responsibility and humility  have to be in place before sports science comes into play. That's what separates the average teams/players from the top teams/players
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:21 pm

But the want and desire thing has never changed - that's one of the pre-requisites. So what gets you the edge when everyone has that hunger, as the teams at the top do?

How you prepare and train, and doing marathon training twice a week would get you nowhere nowadays.

Like, this Dublin team would beat the great Kerry team of the 70s and 80s by 20 points or more. That's just a fact. Teams now are bigger, stronger and faster, and scoring at a higher rate than ever before.

That's science and education, and awareness and willingness to push the envelope in terms of preparation and tactically.

So yeah, hunger is vital, absolutely, and you can see it in a team when the intensity is lacking. But on its own, it'll get you a half hour.

It is one element, like ability, like the physical and mental prep etc. The thing is, given what's involved in terms of that preparation now being a round-the-clock lifestyle that rules out so many aspects of life open to us normal non-HP types, there has to be a certain level of desire to do it at all. That just doesn't seem to always translate itself in terms of intensity and aggression though, it must be said.

Of course like in any walk of life, there are bluffers (before anyone goes there, no-one knows better than me!), particularly at club level. But largely, you have good people who have gotten qualifications and understand biomechanics etc - like i had a conversation in the club last night with a guy who wants to start screening players from a young age to discover their imbalances and give them routines from that young age that will help them prevent issues occurring down the line. It's all so over my head but makes utter sense and should be embraced for players' own welfare - which in turn makes them better. What it means is that it involves doing more on your own time though and that requires more desire at the end of the day. At club level, at underage club level, you'd probably be lucky if three or four did it, but it's worth it if that three or four do.
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:39 pm

Looks like Brian Murphy and Padraig Brennan have stepped down as selectors as well.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/oneill-seeking-new-kildare-selectors-as-trio-depart-35104576.html
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Cilldara_2000
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:39 pm

A lot of this sports science and strength and conditioning nonsense is self serving bullshit peddled by spoofers and bluffers who get well "paid" to send lads into gyms for hours on end and suck every bit of joy and enjoyment from sport when the players would be better served out on a field with a ball in their hands. At best it pushes performance on by millimeters and is no substitute for practicing the basic skills. I'm sure it has its place in the modern game, but IMO too many people completely overstate its importance.

Take that article linked to by TK. No doubt that lad was well rewarded for his input. But it's basic common sense stuff that a ten year old could tell you, not some messianic revelation. If you want to get better with your weaker side, you practice everything with it, not just kicking and passing. Fucking hell, I could have told them that without charging anything for my wisdom. And what the fudge is "smacking the ice"?

Bloody cowboys and charlatans have taken over the asylum.
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Crofter
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:14 pm

JohnnyC wrote:
Looks like Brian Murphy and Padraig Brennan have stepped down as selectors as well.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/oneill-seeking-new-kildare-selectors-as-trio-depart-35104576.html

Interesting changes and at least a recognition that last year was not a particular success. I wonder how much the players played a role in these changes? I never got the feeling the management and team were really on the same wavelength last year. We seemed to be going through the motions somewhat.

Wonder is a certain J.Doyle lined up to come on board?
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Botch
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:17 pm

I think this stuff has gone way over the top and is a reason why we are loosing players.  Controlling their lives from the minute they wake up to the minute they go to bed.  I do sense that a lot of these sports science people are absolute bullshitters.  Telling us what we already know.  Most of it common sense.

Of course players will improve if they train every day.  They will be fit and will be able to compete.  The difference with the Dubs and others compared to us is their SKILL LEVEL.  Our players are not up to it from what I can see at the moment.  They can get fit but they skill levels let us down.  

We have had success at minor and u21 level in recent years.  That gives us a chance.  But it seems to me they do not improve from there.  Some even don't play anymore.

So it all comes down to coaching players in the correct way.  Getting a balance between their personal lives and their training.  Ensuring training is good quality for the times they have to train and letting them away to their own lives when it is not.  Then player will respond in my opinion.

And I think we will all agree that Club football in Kildare is not great quality with VERY FEW players looking like they have what it takes to be a top player.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:22 pm

JohnnyC wrote:
Looks like Brian Murphy and Padraig Brennan have stepped down as selectors as well.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/oneill-seeking-new-kildare-selectors-as-trio-depart-35104576.html

Any truth in the rumour that murph is returning to the minors ??.
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intheback
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare Senior Footballers 2017    Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:47 am

I would consider the Kildare manager to be one of the bigger jobs in gaelic. A big name is needed therefore.

Last few years it seems to be used as a position where inexperienced men can experiment. The results are there to be seen in plain sight.
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