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 O'Byrne Cup 2017

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Botch
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:22 am

It was shocking. The dubs were as expected. Mobile, fit and had a couple of dangerous footballers. Those footballers SKINNED our players. The other players are all good club players in Dublin.

From what I see a lot of our players are just that. Good CLUB players. Nothing special. That's why it was close and that's why the Dubs beat us. We certainly lack confidence and that would help us a little. The dubs always have it.

WE continue to shoot from 45 metres with limited success (Cribben, Moolick). What baffles me is that these players DO NOT score these chances regularly. Yet they continue to have these pop shots. WE are certainly not good enough for that. Even Dublins third team worked the ball inside the 40 before they had a go on most occasions.

Our full back line was rocky as usual. We need a good solid (strong, presence) mobile full back. Hyland is mobile but gets pushed off so easily. Maybe he will improve. Corner backs need to keep it tight. Nothing fancy.

And this is where O Neill comes in.
Training needs to be structured so the players know what they need to be doing.
ie working the ball into the 35 yard range before they have a shot. Work the ball until this opportunity is created. And on occasions kick in long to keep the opposition full back line honest.
That is what the best teams do. They hold position until the gaps appear.

Maybe I am being too simplistic but I think our lads could handle that.


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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:56 am

'What baffles me is that these players DO NOT score these chances regularly...' Very true. You can throw in a few others into that bracket also. Few players need to be played in other positions. Hyland half backline. Dowling full forward .Dan Flynn out the field. Cribbin*2, Hyland, Flynn and Lyons have pace. The goal chances we got in first half resulted from quick breaks from defence- K Cribbin made for this. Conway unfit as usual in winter but will probably be our best player again when it counts.
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midfieldmaestro
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:58 am

Come the summer - speed and fitness become crucial. I think Dan Flynn, Ben McCormack showed signs that they will be good on a dry pitch and could cause defenses some issues.

Tackling needs to be addressed though. Mayo showed that this is crucial now adays. Players have got to massively up there tackle intensity. Too many players just putting an arm out and letting a fella run through - that can never happen. Have to stand runners up or teams like Dublin will destroy you.

In summary - alot of work to be done - I think there is some talent there but up to management to get the most out of it now and get them playing with confidence.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:05 am

To me in simple terms and in most sports a manager will come in if they have a long term plan (to a struggling team like Kildare) and the 1st thing they will set about doing is shoring up the defence and then build from there (might not be pretty etc.).... so begin by conceding as little as possible etc. and using players that will put their body on the line I know looking at the team Sunday there was only one or two lads that I would like to go into battle with and too many will go AWOL!!!

Now in my opinion we haven't done that in the last 2 managers and I hate using the KMcG word but when he came in one of the 1st things he done was to get the defensive working and also get 'mean'.

Jim McGuinness done the same, Malachy done the same, Dublin started their revival like this and its Micky Harte's core principal.................. hasn't happened in Kildare and that's why we are going to do nothing in competitive football in the short term
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:06 pm

To be honest, it took 'Malachy' a dodgy injury time free to draw with Jason Ryans Kildare in the Championship.
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:57 am

Did you not see Kildare play last year in the championship micky murphy. O neill tried to set up defensive and it was probably the worse performance ive seen from Kildare in a long time in the championship its just not in Kildares DNA to play like that.
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Botch
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:13 am

steviegenius wrote:
Did you not see Kildare play last year in the championship micky murphy. O neill tried to set up defensive and it was probably the worse performance ive seen from Kildare in a long time in the championship its just not in Kildares DNA to play like that.

They are just not good enough to do it comes to my mind
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:46 pm

stevie for sure I witnessed it, what I am saying is that you just can't turn this on, it is a mindset based on massive work rate, strategy, mental strength, belief, a willingness to put the physical body on the line and a hunger to win like no other - needs to be strictly implemented from the beginning not just sure we will try this now because we are in trouble which is what we done last year...

my opinion at the moment is that results don't see to matter for most of the panel and I ask all to have a look at the players walking off the pitch for Kildare and ask yourself has that player given absolutely everything within his power both mind and body and a bit more to win that game...... and answer it honestly....
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:43 pm

Looking at Kildare the last few years I do feel that the players do lack the real passion work rate belief etc maybe its just not in this generation of players we have and that is the hardest part O Neill has to change to get the best out of each and everyone of the players he has at his disposal.
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TommyKeegan
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:01 am

Think it's possible that it looks like passion/work rate/belief go up and down with the actual talent and therefore competitiveness. Guy looks to be working a lot harder and to be playing with a lot more passion when he's in great and close games and winning them. Could be putting in the same effort in a game where he and his side are being destroyed and it looks like he's not trying as hard.
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:44 am

I think there is something in what TK is saying above, all of our results over the last two years can't just be because the players aren't working hard.

Our results in that time are

Relegation from Div.2
19 point loss to Dubs in Leinster semi final
great win v Cork in fairness followed by 27 point loss to Kerry

Expected promotion from Division3 followed by very poor performance and loss to Clare in League Final.

Shocking performance in victory to Wexford
Another shocking performance to Westmeath which resulted in a loss
A decent effort against Mayo but still a nine point loss.

Obviously last Sunday which was embarrassing.

Maybe it just boils down to these particular players not being that good, and not lack of effort, one thing that really struck me last Sunday was how superior skill wise Dublins third team were to our first choice players.

Yes some of the players have excellent track records at underage level but could that have been down to them being superior physically to their opposition and now at senior level that has been cancelled out and when it becomes a battle of skills we can't get the better of the opposition.

I could be overly harsh there but at the moment it is very hard to see where this particular Kildare team is going.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:54 pm

Hard to argue tc.. Maybe their just not good enough and they're level is middle of division 2.. the other issue I see is there's a lack of competition for places.. especially with the tight panel. And not much to replace someone if they are struggling.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:33 am

Club Hawkfield!!! don't even think they would win the Senior Championship in Kildare which is a crazy notion!
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:42 am

''Club Hawkfield!!! don't even think they would win the Senior Championship in Kildare which is a crazy notion! ''

So do you think Sarsfields would compete at Division 2 intercounty standard and beat likes of Offaly, Wexford, Longford, Down...good one
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:45 am

Very good post Topcat and you so right about how much better Dublin players looked – for me the stand-out players on the field were Scully, Hazeley, Basquel, Hudson, McHugh. All so sharp and classy. The only Kildare player operating at a similar level was Eoin Doyle. Honestly, I would be embarrassed by it if I was Kildare player.

I honestly think there's a fair chance Dublin's U21s could beat our senior team. We don't have forwards as good as Basquel and O'Callaghan for a start.

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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:50 am

Also, to be fair, I have been among those saying why can Mayo for example push them so hard. I am actually totally wrong about that because there is absolutely no way we have defenders as good as Boyle, Higgins, Keegan, Durcan et al. In fact, looking at our performances over the past few years, it is a laughable notion. So yes, I have been totally wrong – imagine that!

Div 2 mid-table mediocrity here we come... if we're lucky!
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:05 am

HG we rarely have really good forwards in Kildare. The 98 team got to a AI final by limiting the oposition to to less than 12 scores per game which worked up to the last game when Galway scored 15 times I think. JD was the best I have seen for in a white jersey and he was good from the start. I remember him against Offaly in 2000 winning a ball, coming back out the field and then sending it over from 40 yards out. Kildare fans around me looked at each other and said "jaysus!" That actually happened whereas in Kerry the same score would be greeted with comments like " about bloody time". I dont know why our standard of forward play is so poor but it is obviously not nurtured at a very young age.
That said I would have hope that Flynn, McCormack and Kelly could develop into a really good forward line if given enough game time together. Hopefully that will happen in the league,
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:33 am

Very true Murof... Been watching Kildare since 1990 and I would say JD is the only top scoring forward we have had in that time.

After 2010, I really thought Kavanagh and Smith had the potential to push on to that elite level but never happened.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:26 am

The likes of conway. D flynn and P Cribben are probably more suited to mid field than the forwards, but we have little choice but to try and convert... Hartley is a versatile chap no doubt, but he has lined out at centre forward.. I'd doubt he'd line out there with the sash, in fact he might struggle to make the forwards at all with the sash..fionn has been moved from one position to another and again seems more comfortable at midfield.
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jim
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:52 am

We have to ask the question "Why are we not producing top quality forwards?" And "why was John Doyle so good?" I'm not sure of the answer but I remembered a teacher telling me a few year back that JD came in to chat to some of the students and he told them he ate slept and breathed football. He said everything else was second. If the job was interfering with his football he got a new job. Football was all he did. Maybe that explains why he was so good.
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:31 am

And he didn't play county till u21 Jim.. in fairness if you watch JD now he still bursts his proverbial for the Allen wood cause.
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:56 pm

Lads I don't know if you had a chance to listen to JD's interview with Anthony Moyle's last summer... A brilliant listen. Moyles subsequently said he was his favourite guest on the show and doesn't surprise me. You would have to question is the same attitude and will to win there amongst the current team. There is a real fear of the Dubs in them, please don't beat us too badly is the vibe. As someone reminded me last night - which I'd completely forgotten about - UCD actually beat this Dub team! This is where we are at...


Anyway, for a refreshing change of perspective...

https://m.soundcloud.com/ballsdotie/hard-shoulder-episode-19-johnny-doyle
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:02 pm

You can almost get the pangs off Johnny and Moylsey for the mid-90s to early noughties period when Kildare and Meath would go out and rip into the Dubs. I remember seeing an interview with Tommy Dowd from that period and he said if there was one other player he could choose to have in the Meath team, it would be Glen Ryan.

Again, I am questioning whether that level of character and ambition is there in the current Kildare squad... Some people will accuse me of being hopelessly nostalgic - and do you know what, they are 100 percent right.
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:19 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
You can almost get the pangs off Johnny and Moylsey for the mid-90s to early noughties period when Kildare and Meath would go out and rip into the Dubs. I remember seeing an interview with Tommy Dowd from that period and he said if there was one other player he could choose to have in the Meath team, it would be Glen Ryan.

Again, I am questioning whether that level of character and ambition is there in the current Kildare squad... Some people will accuse me of being hopelessly nostalgic - and do you know what, they are 100 percent right.
Dublin won last 3 u21 Leinster championship .
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PostSubject: Re: O'Byrne Cup 2017   Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:40 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
Lads I don't know if you had a chance to listen to JD's interview with Anthony Moyle's last summer... A brilliant listen. Moyles subsequently said he was his favourite guest on the show and doesn't surprise me. You would have to question is the same attitude and will to win there amongst the current team. There is a real fear of the Dubs in them, please don't beat us too badly is the vibe. As someone reminded me last night - which I'd completely forgotten about - UCD actually beat this Dub team! This is where we are at...


Anyway, for a refreshing change of perspective...

https://m.soundcloud.com/ballsdotie/hard-shoulder-episode-19-johnny-doyle

We have been beaten by Clare and Westmeath in Croke Park in the last 12 months. Being beaten by the Dubs? If only that was our problem....
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