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 Leinster Final 2017

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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:05 pm

Minus one. I disagree – Gavin is rattled, it will transmit to the players. It's only logical.
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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:08 pm

Hammering Westmeath (a Div 4 team with a hopeless manager) is like taking on an unarmed man with an AK47.
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:44 pm

Not really HG, they are double All Ireland winners for a reason. No matter how bad Westmeath were that was a big score to put up. If we had of been playing them, I don't think we would have got half that amount.

As much as I dislike them, you have to respect them for what they have achieved. In saying that, personally all the attention they have got in the last few days is of no benefit. I probably won't harm them but it certainly won't help them.

Personally from now on I'd rather concentrate on us. There has been enough talk about them.
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jj
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:00 am

Whether we give Dublin a right good rattle in this game will be largely down to our performance on the day and little to do with anything Dublin get up to in the media.
Our confidence is slowly creeping up as the year progresses and I think if we can stand up and match them early on we'll give them plenty to think about. Can't see Cian changing our tactics hugely think a few of our lads will need to live on the edge early enough to put down a few markers because despite any fluffy comments they come out about us in the next few weeks you can be pretty sure that they don't rate us too highly. That needs to be put right not only for this year but with the next few years in mind
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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:15 am

With our Div 1 status next year in mind and more underage talent on the way etc, do people feel we're capable of doing what Mayo have done over the past couple of years and really pushing them?

If we continue our good form from the last couple of games and throughout the league, I'd like to think we can. I really think a strong performance in this game is a sign of things to come, whereas if it's a damp squib, a ten-points plus mauling, it will feel like we've done that classic Kildare thing where we're just another team.

I'd also hate to see us do that Roscommon/Cavan thing where we go from middle tier to Div 1 and then lose the momentum. I have no doubt Dublin's intention in this game will be to bury us – not just to win, but if they get on a run, really twist the knife to make sure we get the message. Which is fair enough really. If I was playing them, my attitude would be, bring it on. Sorts the men from the boys!
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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:19 am

Also, I think if we're in this game at half time – and particularly if Dubs haven't scored any goals – it's huge.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:01 am

The Dublin v WM match was like watching a backs v forwards training session, with all the midfielders playing in.. we'll kick it out to ye and ye try to score... we will hopefully win our share in mf from both kick outs, but we'll have to push up on their kick outs.
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:12 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
With our Div 1 status next year in mind and more underage talent on the way etc, do people feel we're capable of doing what Mayo have done over the past couple of years and really pushing them?

If we continue our good form from the last couple of games and throughout the league, I'd like to think we can. I really think a strong performance in this game is a sign of things to come, whereas if it's a damp squib, a ten-points plus mauling, it will feel like we've done that classic Kildare thing where we're just another team.

I'd also hate to see us do that Roscommon/Cavan thing where we go from middle tier to Div 1 and then lose the momentum. I have no doubt Dublin's intention in this game will be to bury us – not just to win, but if they get on a run, really twist the knife to make sure we get the message. Which is fair enough really. If I was playing them, my attitude would be, bring it on. Sorts the men from the boys!

Honestly no (if the question is whether we can get as close as Mayo). I think we've all gotten a bit carried away with ourselves. We not only have Dublin to overcome but our own performances in the big feckin' house over the last few years. Yet again this year we let a big opportunity slip when we had the chance to bury our CP hoodoo against Galway. While I loved the performances against Laois and Meath which were a significant move in the right direction, and I love the pace and power at which we are trying to play, we haven't played one of the top 4 or 5 teams yet and to jump from there to trying to run Dublin close is a massive massive leap. The most important thing for me is that we play without the fear that has gripped us in CP the last few years. That we give it a go and see where it takes us. If that happens and Dublin also have something of an off-day then I can see us getting relatively close but by that I mean 6 or 7 points. Being more realistic I think anything under 10 and we can move on to the qualifiers in reasonable shape. Mayo are a good few years on the go and last year were as good as they are probably going to be for a long time. While we may able to live with Mayo this year if we happened to meet them, we are a long way away from being able to draw with Dublin in an All Ireland Final and come so close in the replay as they did.

Feel free to throw this back in my face on the evening of Sunday 16th !
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:35 am

I think that is a pretty good summation of where we are at this point in time. I said in a previous post that I think the game is not about this year but about the one in two years. If we can get within 5 or 6 points that will be a very good days work. What we need from this game is to be competitive and to see how we hold up physically.

Looking at the other teams on our side of the qualifiers I wouldn't fear any of them. The goal now should be the quarter final.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:50 am

Our team will develop more over the next few years, but I really hope the players seize the opportunity in this match, give it everything. Leinster finals have been thin on the ground in recent times and there are no guarantees. Like I say, a strong performance in this match is a great platform not just for the rest of the year, but for the next few seasons.

Btw who's on our qualifier side? You need a physics degree for this stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:52 am

Fully agree with the above, I think being within 5 or 6 would be a good achievement and would indicate solid progress, especially if we set out to play to our strengths as we have done in the first two games, getting that close by simply parking the bus with an ultra defensive setup wouldn't indicate quiet as much progress. Despite that there's always a crazy part of my brain that will convince me we have a shot at winning though!
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:54 am

cmcc wrote:
getting that close by simply parking the bus with an ultra defensive setup

If we did take that approach we would make it close, but I agree, it's a false impression. Ultimately you won't win playing that way.

I wonder is there an argument for going defensive in the first half, 13 men behind the ball, and then going for it in the second half! Particularly as the Dubs wouldn't be expecting it or have seen from us... Something to throw out there!
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:25 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
cmcc wrote:
getting that close by simply parking the bus with an ultra defensive setup

If we did take that approach we would make it close, but I agree, it's a false impression. Ultimately you won't win playing that way.

I wonder is there an argument for going defensive in the first half, 13 men behind the ball, and then going for it in the second half! Particularly as the Dubs wouldn't be expecting it or have seen from us... Something to throw out there!

That's not the approach for me. I think we're more likely to be successful going for the jugular and hoping to rattle them. They are well used to teams starting defensively. I think we have had a reasonable balance between defence and attack in our two previous games. Get the feckin' thing into Daniel to run at their FB line, Niall to spread passes into Brophs, Cribbin and Ollie breaking at pace from deep.. and push up on Cluxton's kick outs so he has to go long. Then hope Feely and Moo can win their fair share of kick outs with Doyle etc sweeping behind them. Easy really.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:49 am

Ah yeah, I'm sure that will be the approach, was just throwing it out there! A few tactical points...

Their kickouts: Realistically they're going to win most of them, but we have to try and pin them back as much as possible. I'm sure we'll be taking a leaf out of Mayo and Kerry's playbook.

Our kickouts: Dubs have been pushing up on them particularly aggressively this year, using a zonal approach to try and pressure the short ones. Donnellan needs to be seriously on his game and there needs to be plenty of movement from the backs to give him options. Also, Dubs aggressively breaking long kickouts, so if Feely and Moolick don't catch cleanly, middle eight going to have to fight like maniacs.

Our backs: To me the key to this game. Mayo strangled the life out of them last year and Kerry also did exceptionally well in league final, Tyrone too in league. Winning our man to man battles essential. Man marker on Kilkenny?

Our forwards: In fairness to Dublin, they do give you more room to play than many teams,  but Cooper and co are brilliant man markers. The most severe test our FF line will get all year. I have no doubt Niall Kelly will be singled out for "treatment". Can he produce a few moments of brilliance when the pressure is on...
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:02 am

Great points HG.

Niall Kelly - he can get snuffed out in some of the bigger cames as can most forwards. He played well v Galway but poorly v Meath against a guy (Burke) who shouldn't have been able to live with him.

How do we set up v Dublin attack?

Scully - Byrne (bit worried about this match up honestly as Scully may be too mobile?)
Andrews - Doyle but covered by midfield & Conway tracking back
Kilkenny - Cribbin (has a good engine, will need it)
Mannion - Hyland ( "treatment")
O'Callaghan - O'Grady (more "treatment")
Rock - Lyons (run the arse off him)





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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:08 am

Alternative to above might be Byrne on Rock and Lyons and Scully now I think about it
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:13 am

The Dubs are all expected to be able for their men and I think Flynn willget the treatment which should get him going. Kelly is due a big game.
We are in a nice place roght now and the players are enjoying their ball so ripping up the script would be a bad move.
Unless Cian sets them up in some ridiculous way or sone new plan then the players need to make a stand.
I would fancy Keith to just sit on Kilkenny and then have him run back the other way. In fairness markets dont really count for much these days so it could be done.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:43 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
Our team will develop more over the next few years, but I really hope the players seize the opportunity in this match, give it everything. Leinster finals have been thin on the ground in recent times and there are no guarantees. Like I say, a strong performance in this match is a great platform not just for the rest of the year, but for the next few seasons.

Btw who's on our qualifier side? You need a physics degree for this stuff.

From what I can figure out, if we lose to Dublin we will play one of the 2 teams that emerge from these 4 round 2B games and subsequent 3B games

Wexford/Monaghan
Wmeath/Armagh
Carlow/Leitrim
Cavan/Tipperary
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:51 am

Hmm... Manageable - you'd hope!

Of course, if you do manage to compete with Dubs for 50/55 mins, you then have to contend with the cavalry. The options they have are absolutely ludicrous. Just to pick a random example - Conor McHugh would be starting on most teams in the country and I'm not sure is he even in the squad?!

Obviously you have the likes of Brogan and McManamon to come in. Apparently MD Macauley back in the mix as well. Costello too maybe? Christ!
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:05 am

Our bench is nowhere near as potent as Dublin's. If we were to lose two defenders in the first half to injury or black cards who have we to come in?
Anyone know if any of the younger lads in the squad are flying in training as the say? Peter Kelly won't be able to keep up to the young guns that Dublin with unleash in the 2nd half.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:18 am

I could see Dubs starting with O Gara against us, to be kind he is a very limited footballer but he brings a huge amount of physicality to their forward line, outside of O Grady we don't really have that in our full back line.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:53 am

If it's an open, you-attack-we attack type of game then we are in trouble as Dublin will probably have more possession than us, have better forwards and a better bench. The only chance we have is to take them out of their comfort zone and rattle them. Whether that's done by going very defensive, playing with the  madness/belligerence Down showed on Saturday or trying to target Cluxton's kick-outs like Kerry did last year I'm not sure.

Even if everything goes right for us, it's hard to see us winning. It took Kerry years of hard knocks before they finally beat them so it's a huge ask. I think it's vital we compete for the full 75-80 minutes though. Too often, Kildare teams have dropped the head when losing and taken bad beatings. Hopefully this won't happen as I fear it could undo a lot of the progress we've made this year.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:01 pm

I think some people on here are getting carried away. At this point in our development, I don't think we're ready to win a big game against a team like this.
We have to be incredibly smart - bursting x or y or z Dublin player with a shoulder doesn't cut it as a gameplan. We have to get kickouts at both ends spot on because if we don't, the margin could get very embarrassing very quickly.
We need to strike a balance between defence and attack - people frame it as a question of either 'going defensive' or 'having a go' but it's not that black and white, you need to try to do do both.
We will also need very clever tactics, like looking at the way Carlow took the sting out of the game by retaining possession, or the way Kerry went full press on their kickouts at certain stages last year.
If we get all that right, we can give a decent show. I'd be very happy with a competitive performance, something like the way Mayo fared against Kerry in 2011 - they lost by a fair bit but played well and that set them up to be a serious team in the years after. If we manage the same, we can banish the Croke Park and playing Dublin hang ups and I'd be satisfied with that.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:08 pm

I am one calling for the hits and mowing lads with shoulders but that is something we all want to see. That should be a natural thing in terms of being aggressive and not admiring them.
As you say O2B it´s not just defensive or otherwise. We actually have the right type of lads to allow us break up the field so when we go we have to really go.
Christ we need Donnellan really focused and on top form off his tee more than ever. The chances of Cluxton having a brain fart are fairly slim so we have to deal with his targets and even moreseo when they receive the ball what we are going to do then.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:42 pm

Ah yeah flamingo nothing against hitting hard I just meant there are some auld lads who think it's simply a case of getting stuck in and wanting it enough and football is obviously way more sophisticated than that now.

On a lighter/darker note I made the mistake of looking at Reservoir Dubs for the first time in a couple of years:

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