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 Leinster Final 2017

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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:57 am

I'm not bothered about losing as we well used to that. This game is not about this year, it's about next or two years time. Again, if we lose then we lose but make them earn it. Put the hits in, run yourself into the ground and don't back down.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:03 am

Bit frightening watching that display but at least there shouldn't be too much hype and expectations now.
Interesting the dubs broke every kickout for the first 20-25 mins, was this because Kerry beat them in midfield and a bit worried about ours. In fairness I don't think Donnelan wud keep lamping them out to be lost. Little worried about mobility of our middle pair but hopefully o niell will have a plan
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:03 am

Bit frightening watching that display but at least there shouldn't be too much hype and expectations now.
Interesting the dubs broke every kickout for the first 20-25 mins, was this because Kerry beat them in midfield and a bit worried about ours. In fairness I don't think Donnelan wud keep lamping them out to be lost. Little worried about mobility of our middle pair but hopefully o niell  will have a plan
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:04 am

Things you never hear people say: "Tom Cribben is a tactical genius"
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:32 am

Dublin 1/12 Draw 20/1 Kildare 8/1
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:05 am

Worth a score.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:55 am

After watching Dubs today, do people think we should stick with our attack minded gameplan or go for a more pragmatic defensive approach, personally I don't think playing defensively suits us at all, we tried that last year and did it very badly in a number of games.

If that means we get beat by 15/20 points so be it but id we play defensive we will defo get beaten well, maybe by 10-12 points similar to Mayo last year.

I just can't understand why Cian and the backroom team would come up with this particular game plan only to abandon it against the Dubs so I say stick to what has got us there, if it is not good enough so be it.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:10 am

Definitely keep playing the way we are playing. There's no doubt about it, this will be a step up for every one of our players. It'll be played at an intensity that none of our players have experienced before. Anyone who was at the league final and stayed on for Dublin Kerry game will know that. Kickouts are crucial. Dublin today pushed up completely on Westmeaths kickouts. Leaving sometimes one v one at the back. If we could win a decent amount of possession from our own kickout and get early ball into Brophy with Flynn arriving at pace off a shoulder we could do damage.
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:12 am

Go after them. What's another beating.

Coming around to the idea of Cribbin in Midfield. Dublin have no intention of catching clean ball and break it every time. Moolick won't have the legs, but Paul will.
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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:25 am

Yep, think O'Neill will stick with the gameplan. It's actually very similar to how Mayo and Kerry have gone at them over the past year. It's an approach that relies on the backs doing well in their one-on-one battles, with the midfielders and wing forwards getting back to block off the runners.

If we can maintain the intensity we've had so far this year and that Mayo bought last year, we can push them. Again, it takes concentration and application for 80 mins. Also digging in when they get a run, as Mayo and Kerry do. If we bring that level of effort, we can really take it to them.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:48 am

We have nothing to lose by actually going for it. That's not saying that we go kamikaze and leave gaps everywhere, but at least let's not sit deep because we can't absorb the Dubs for long.
We have natural ball carriers coming out so it would be mad to throw a year that has been so positive so far up in the air.
It would be a huge shock if we won, but in Flynn and Brophy we have two big men who can move inside. I just hope we pose some questions and don't lie down.
I think the two lads mentioned have a streak in them to not show the Dubs too much respect. Flynn especially has an edge when he gets going and likes to put in a hit.
We need the FF line leading the defence, which is something I think they can do. If Paul Cribbin is injured and people don't fancy Tommy Keith could easily shadow Kilkenny for the day...
But I would prefer to keep things as are as much as possible.
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HauntedGraffiti
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:59 am

I think we'll do fine at midfield. Parsons and O'Shea have sowed it into them over the past couple of years and neither are speed merchants. Also I think we have much better forwards than Mayo so more grounds for encouragement.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:07 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
I think we'll do fine at midfield. Parsons and O'Shea have sowed it into them over the past couple of years and neither are speed merchants. Also I think we have much better forwards than Mayo so more grounds for encouragement.
that would Hard have better forwards than Mayo. Moolick in league final was out his feet after 35 minutes against one best midfield pairing in country
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:31 am

We need to fight like dogs tackle in packs keep huge pressure on the Dublin man with the ball something that down did well last night . If we can go at it like that Dublin won't like that . Give them time on the ball and space they will destroy you, it call no respect .if we do that we will make a game out of it . Nothing to lose lads we underdogs just compete.?
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:48 pm

Exactly - have to hunt them down in the best traditions of any Kildare team that's been successful against them down the years. A lot going on about Westmeath's set up. It wasn't so much where they had their players it was the absolute lack of pressure they placed on players like Mannion after the opening 10 or 12 minutes. Can't leave a player like that with time and space but "he doesn't like it up him" as they say.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:05 pm

So what will be the game plan?
Dublin were frightening yesterday - although Westmeath contributed to their own downfall with their kickout strategy (or there lack of). We have to break even around the middle third to stand any chance - so I would hope we'd push up on their kickouts (of which I hope there are plenty) and contest. With Brophy and Flynn on the inside, given the right supply we can do damage - and we'll need goals, probably 3 or 4.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:54 pm

Hopefully kildare study the div.1 league final and in particular Michael Geaneys performance at 11 for Kerry...it was the key for me for Kerry matching dublin that day...
We're going to be playing dublin regular for the next few years in league etc. So I think a pasting in the manner of westmeath would be a massive dent in kildares progession/development
Fingers crossed for a good competitive 50/55 minutes...
Apologies for being realistic
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:24 pm

An amazing thing about Dublin is that Stephen Cluxton alone makes beating them a mathematical improbability for most teams.

They generally win 90 percent of his kickouts - against Westmeath it was 100 percent. From that platform, they average around 20 attacks per half; if they convert even 50 percent of those, they're already on 20 points, which will win most matches.

Along with Mickey Harte and Jim McGuinness, he's probably the single most influential figure in the tactical development of Gaelic football in the 21st century.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:29 pm

To reiterate: our backs are going to be absolutely crucial in this game. Mayo last year really strangled the life out of them and it took Cormac Costello coming in and finally getting a bit of space to get Dublin over the line. Even then, Mayo could easily have take it to extra time.

I do think Mayo have the best defence in the country, but we have improved hugely in this regard recently. Hopefully Hyland, O'Grady, Lyons et al continue their good form. Certainly, this is going to be an acid test of their credentials.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:26 am

I found it very strange that Westmeath never once attempted to push up on the Dublin kickout. I think we have to try to force them to kick to a contest. Dublin's speed and accuracy moving the ball up the field is second to none. If you concede possession straight away you're asking for trouble because they don't cough up the ball cheaply. Kerry have managed to put pressure on the Dublin kickout in the past and I think we have to try to copy that template as best we can.

The only personnel change I would make would be Paul Cribbin for Moolick. Conway to drop a bit deeper to try and block up the middle. Have Slattery on McCaffrey and Keith Cribbin on Kilkenny. Leave Brophy and McNally inside and try to get Flynn running at Cian O'Sullivan. Horse into them early and often and make them work for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:53 am

Tactically Westmeath an absolute shambles, looked every bit a Div 4 side. Definitely need to press them on the kickouts, I have no doubt we will. At the other end, Dubs are pressing opposition kickouts very hard, going with a zonal approach that makes the short ones tricky. Donnellan will have to be very sharp but I've no doubt he'll be prepared.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:58 am

In the absence of Connolly, Kilkenny is definitely the main man in attack. Kildare and Meath teams used to be very good at targeting the Dubs' leaders so hopefully we get back to some of that. Tagdh Morley did some job on Kilkenny in league final.

Re McCaffrey – one thing I've never seen any team do, even Mayo, is knock him back on his arse. Literally just level him with a shoulder in first ten mins and see how likes it. This is no time for respect.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:09 am

I hope Roli gives the lads a bit of the Moorefield edge! We need to be mean cunts in this final. We've given them far too much respect over the last few meetings. We were not going to beat them but didn't even throw in a shoulder or show any bit of physicality in 2013 and 2015 meetings. Time to be different.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:14 am

I think the Dubs would much less fancy having to deal with Brophy and Flynn inside. Maybe let Flynn roam a bit, but i would like both of them close to goals.
In terms of kickouts I think we have much more cop than to just lump it down the field for 70 minutes and ignore what we are seeing before our eyes.
I think we have come on so much on the field and on the sideline in 12 months that we won't just lie down.
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PostSubject: Re: Leinster Final 2017   Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:33 am

It's funny as well with Cluxton – he likes to cultivate an image as the Clint Eastwood of GAA, but when teams have some success breaking his kickouts,, there are periods when he goes absolutely haywire.

Against Mayo and Kerry at different stages over the past couple of seasons, he has had full-on meltdowns. I'm sure O'Neill and co. have taken note.
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