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 Kildare v Armagh

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Highball
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:41 pm

Here Here Flamingo, was thinking the exact same thing recently.

Its a credit to management and players and the work that they have put in that we are actually discussing tactics/positioning/opposition as opposed to bickering over another wasted summer.

Long may it continue
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:40 pm

In fairness to O'NEILL his priority last year was to find as many players as possible while getting out of Div 3. He reasoned the best way to achieve both objectives was just to play open football and not worry unduly about tactics. This meant that he had to hurriedly improvise a defensive format for what he hoped would be a future clash with Dublin and he admits he made a mess of that.
There is no doubt he is in this for the long term and his willingness to bring in players who are not high profile like Slattery is encouraging for the future.
I think we lucky to have him and the good underage structures we have in the county.
Really looking forward to see us beat a decent team in Croker, can't remember the last time we did that!
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:08 pm

We beat Monaghan in 2010 and Derry in 2011 in Croker Park both in R4 qualifiers, both teams coming off the back of trimmings in Ulster Final. Perhaps the last great win was Meath in QF in 2010. I wouldn't count the Div 2 win over Tyrone to be honest.

Depressing really considering the amount of games we have had up there.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:35 am

umpireonditch wrote:
We beat Monaghan in 2010 and Derry in 2011 in Croker Park both in R4 qualifiers, both teams coming off the back of trimmings in Ulster Final. Perhaps the last great win was Meath in QF in 2010. I wouldn't count the Div 2 win over Tyrone to be honest.

Depressing really considering the amount of games we have had up there.

Again, I just think it's reflective of the teams Kildare have had out and the opposition. 2012, was dying team, 2013 a new start with 12 / 13 U21s playing championship - since then, injuries and key players missing, others developing. I just think far too much is made of Croke Park as an issue, though it becomes one if it enters the head. It just happens to be that most of the big games are played there.

Apart from last year and Meath 2012, there haven't been too many games where they were hot favourites before and lost.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:53 am

I have to say the turnaround from last year is quite extraordinary - Wexford and Westmeath games two of the worst Kildare championship performances of the past 30 years (and there is serious competition as we know), but we've been very impressive so far this year. More power to Cian and co.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:50 am

Ogie wrote:
umpireonditch wrote:
We beat Monaghan in 2010 and Derry in 2011 in Croker Park both in R4 qualifiers, both teams coming off the back of trimmings in Ulster Final. Perhaps the last great win was Meath in QF in 2010. I wouldn't count the Div 2 win over Tyrone to be honest.

Depressing really considering the amount of games we have had up there.

Again, I just think it's reflective of the teams Kildare have had out and the opposition. 2012, was dying team, 2013 a new start with 12 / 13 U21s playing championship - since then, injuries and key players missing, others developing. I just think far too much is made of Croke Park as an issue, though it becomes one if it enters the head. It just happens to be that most of the big games are played there.

Apart from last year and Meath 2012, there haven't been too many games where they were hot favourites before and lost.

I´d agree in that it's not some major hoodoo, simply might be we went down a few levels. Also as noted Feely is back and taking showing his true potential. Flynn is focused and injury free.
Eoin Doyle was also suffering niggles but has been fairly free until the thumb, which is just a matter of healing rather than something strain or ligament related.
Others have also stepped up like Slattery and McNally who have really taken everyone by surprise so far this year.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:23 am

Was Slattery ever in around Kildare underage squads? His form this year has been brilliant and he tore the Dublin defence to shreds on a few occasions - not many forwards in the country able to say that.

Amazing the way he just seems to have come out of nowhere!
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:54 pm

David Slattery - man of mystery!

Tactical points for this game...

Backs: Bitterly disappointing the way the FB line plus Doyle were dragged out of position for first goal v Dubs. Ditto the way McCarthy waltzed through for second. Obviously Armagh have nowhere near pace, movement and finishing power of Dubs in their forward line, but they have skilful players and Clarke in particular is definitely a danger. Who'll pick him up? Previously I would have said Lyons but was very disappointed how he did on Brogan, albeit against one of Dubs' greatest ever players. Still think our defence generally is too nice - I am a big advocate of a few crunching shoulders in first 10-15 mins.

Midfield: Feely back a godsend. Armagh good with Grimley but we definitely have one of the top midfield partnerships in the country. Watched Leinster final back again and I do not get at all why people are saying Moolick was caught for pace. I just don't see it. Like Moran, Maher, O'Shea, Parsons - Tommy not a speed merchant but an absolute warrior, plus scoring threat. Would be madness to break up this midfield partnership.

Forwards: For the first time in my lifetime, Kildare have a forward line to give you nightmares. But I'm going to be blunt - Kelly needs a kick in the arse. Only because he's so good and he has the potential to be one of the top forwards in the country. Don't want him to do a James Kavanagh/Alan Smith and not deliver on his ability.


Finally, psychologically, we have to be prepared for war in this game. Armagh are a limited team but I expect a ferocious effort from them. Match them in that regard and we have more than enough ability to win this.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:50 pm

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
Was Slattery ever in around Kildare underage squads? His form this year has been brilliant and he tore the Dublin defence to shreds on a few occasions - not many forwards in the country able to say that.

Amazing the way he just seems to have come out of nowhere!

Slattery was always very quick but he was slight and some of his skills let him down, he's obviously worked very hard on in the gym but also on his kicking and soloing at pace because he looked at home up against the best in the country over the last few games.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:56 pm

Yeah was brilliant the way he got on the ball deep and just ran at them - like I say really carved them up a few times. If Flynn had buried that chance would have been the mother of all assists from Slattery.

Think Kelly could actually take a leaf out of his book. If he's getting man-marked, just drop deep and start running at people and picking out passes. I think if he does that he can still make the play open up and exert a big influence on the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:44 pm

Kelly has struggled at CF the last few games.. I'd move him to the corner in a switch with Cotsy.. I've seen Cotsy at CF for his Club this season, And he was very impressive.
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:56 pm

If it's not working for Kelly at 11 then move him rather than taking him off. He was our best player against Galway in the league final and just needs a few scores to get him going.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:23 am

It might suit Niall dropping out from the corner rather than from CF where he's too far back.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:54 am

Agree with your analysis HG. People shouldn't underestimate how big a deal this is in OurMa. They haven't been this excited since the last Nathan Carter concert up there. While Tyrone is at the back of our minds and we've picked off a couple of targets this year, this is the be all and end all of OurMa's season. They had the obligatory 3 day Geezer training camp last weekend and it'll be extremely physical (for all the talk of their new style of football). Still think we'll win by 3 or 4 but it'll be hard earned. On league form they are a division 3 team but no more than ourselves under Geezer they seem to be peaking in July and I'd expect a tougher all round challenge than we got from Meath for example.

Geezer used to frequent a cafe in the Blanchardstown Shopping Centre back in the day. My uncle who is retired would be in there sometimes, he's not from Kildare but would be very interested in the team's fortunes (largely to gauge my humour!). Anytime he stopped by Geezer's table to talk football Geezer was very open with him but would always say his team (us) were too nice. Would imagine the same conversation about us has been had regularly in the last 10 days with the OurMa boys.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:07 am

Shergar wrote:
They haven't been this excited since the last Nathan Carter concert up there.

And the winner of the Kildare Forum Line of the Year goes to - opens envelope – Shergar!
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:50 am

Armagh were unlucky not to get promoted this year. They lost 2 games by a point and scored 15 goals in 7 matches. Admittedly 6 of those came against Offaly which skews it a bit. Interesting that the 2 games they lost were the only ones that they didn't score goals in.
If we stop them scoring goals we should be too good for them but they could be a hard team to break down if they get in front and adopt a cynical approach to protecting a lead. A good start will be needed I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:10 am

HauntedGraffiti wrote:
David Slattery - man of mystery!

Tactical points for this game...

Backs: Bitterly disappointing the way the FB line plus Doyle were dragged out of position for first goal v Dubs. Ditto the way McCarthy waltzed through for second. Obviously Armagh have nowhere near pace, movement and finishing power of Dubs in their forward line, but they have skilful players and Clarke in particular is definitely a danger. Who'll pick him up? Previously I would have said Lyons but was very disappointed how he did on Brogan, albeit against one of Dubs' greatest ever players. Still think our defence generally is too nice - I am a big advocate of a few crunching shoulders in first 10-15 mins.

Midfield: Feely back a godsend. Armagh good with Grimley but we definitely have one of the top midfield partnerships in the country. Watched Leinster final back again and I do not get at all why people are saying Moolick was caught for pace. I just don't see it. Like Moran, Maher, O'Shea, Parsons - Tommy not a speed merchant but an absolute warrior, plus scoring threat. Would be madness to break up this midfield partnership.

Forwards: For the first time in my lifetime, Kildare have a forward line to give you nightmares. But I'm going to be blunt - Kelly needs a kick in the arse. Only because he's so good and he has the potential to be one of the top forwards in the country. Don't want him to do a James Kavanagh/Alan Smith and not deliver on his ability.


Finally, psychologically, we have to be prepared for war in this game. Armagh are a limited team but I expect a ferocious effort from them. Match them in that regard and we have more than enough ability to win this.

I dont think Armagh's forwards are that great and I would agree with other posters that Clarke is a bit over rated. Saying that I think Keith or Ollie will pick him up. While Ollie wasnt at his best against Dublin he has still been one of our best players this year and i think he will do the job on Clarke on the day.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:20 pm

When is team being named?
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:28 pm

Westside wrote:
HauntedGraffiti wrote:
David Slattery - man of mystery!

Tactical points for this game...

Backs: Bitterly disappointing the way the FB line plus Doyle were dragged out of position for first goal v Dubs. Ditto the way McCarthy waltzed through for second. Obviously Armagh have nowhere near pace, movement and finishing power of Dubs in their forward line, but they have skilful players and Clarke in particular is definitely a danger. Who'll pick him up? Previously I would have said Lyons but was very disappointed how he did on Brogan, albeit against one of Dubs' greatest ever players. Still think our defence generally is too nice - I am a big advocate of a few crunching shoulders in first 10-15 mins.

Midfield: Feely back a godsend. Armagh good with Grimley but we definitely have one of the top midfield partnerships in the country. Watched Leinster final back again and I do not get at all why people are saying Moolick was caught for pace. I just don't see it. Like Moran, Maher, O'Shea, Parsons - Tommy not a speed merchant but an absolute warrior, plus scoring threat. Would be madness to break up this midfield partnership.

Forwards: For the first time in my lifetime, Kildare have a forward line to give you nightmares. But I'm going to be blunt - Kelly needs a kick in the arse. Only because he's so good and he has the potential to be one of the top forwards in the country. Don't want him to do a James Kavanagh/Alan Smith and not deliver on his ability.


Finally, psychologically, we have to be prepared for war in this game. Armagh are a limited team but I expect a ferocious effort from them. Match them in that regard and we have more than enough ability to win this.

I dont think Armagh's forwards are that great and I would agree with other posters that Clarke is a bit over rated. Saying that I think Keith or Ollie will pick him up. While Ollie wasnt at his best against Dublin he has still been one of our best players this year and i think he will do the job on Clarke on the day.

I think Keith and Ollie are too important as attacking weapons to be given a man marking job for this match. I would put Hyland or O'Grady on Clarke.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:06 pm

Few points;

On Clarke - I think he is a very good player, fast and likes to run at his man, not something our backs have dealt well with in the past. The big thing will be to stop him getting good ball in the first place.

On Kelly - With Kevin now being so good in the 1/4 back position as some call it and with Slattery/Keith among others running the ball so well I believe the ball is by passing Niall in the CF position. This is something both the management and himself will have to work on. If Kevin is kicking the ball into the full forward line then there is little chance of him getting on it. I am not saying the ball should go through Kelly, far from it, but I definitely think a position change may suit Niall and the team.

Always fear it when I start to believe that we should win games but this is a game we should win. Show up with the correct attitude and I believe we win by 5+.



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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:25 pm

Well whoever takes him has to be all over him. This again goes back to us being to nice. I was really annoyed with how we gave Con O'Callaghan a nice stroll around the place the last day. Should have been shoving him around the place and letting him know this wasn't U16 anymore. Could you imagine Kildare or Meath teams back in the day letting that happen... Donegal under McGuinness? No way.

Our defence needs that mean streak if we're going to step up. Mayo do very effective man marking as well, and if Keegan and the boys have to employ dark arts along the way - tripping, blocking, jersey pulling, a few digs, whatever - so be it.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:47 pm

If it does end up being a Tyrone-Dublin semi, you watch how they target Callaghan - his marker will have to be dug out of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:06 am

Strangely apprehensive going into this one. Always feel uneasy when Kildare go into a game as favourites. Dont think this will be as straightforward as I have heard some people make it out to be. I think their inside line could cause us many problems and with Doyle missing, maybe there will be a couple of issues regarding sweeper in front of the full back line. It has been a never ending issue where we are too easy down the centre and Armagh will for sure target this. I hope I am proved wrong but not as confident as I should be going into this.

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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:12 am

Good point about Doyle which I actually didn't mention above. Team still to be announced but assuming Conway will move back... He has some big boots to fill in fairness, hopefully he'll do the business. I think he will.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:15 am

Hyland out to centre back with Peter Kelly in full back anyone?
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