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 Kildare v Armagh

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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:53 pm

kildaregaa365 wrote:
Actually didn't think Kelly was that bad on Sunday. Got on the ball probably more than McNally who no longer seems to be in anyone's sights as he's getting some scores. You have to stick with someone of Kelly's class in my view (at least for one more game). I also didn't see too many having a go at Conway. He was due a bad game after the two years he's had.

What people can sometimes be slow to get is that playing Meath is not the same as playing Dublin - and a performance or result against one doesn't equate to the a performance or result against the other.

Conway has been excellent all year in a new role, though doing a lot of similar things. Just done for pace and Dublin have those tools more than any other. So were plenty others one-on-one and that was the problem. There were too many one-on-ones and Dublin were able to beat the man and create the overlap. Conway would be playing if everyone was available, no question. Kildare need to get Niall Kelly involved more but Niall has to get himself involved more within the structure of the game plan. I'm sure that's the intention although Feely is the primary quarter-back /out-half / playmaker right now. The best teams have two and maybe Kelly should come a little deeper to get on the ball - or start making those supporting runs off to inside men or off shoulder of carrier - or both. But class players get themselves in it and that's the challenge for Niall Kelly.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:14 pm

kildaregaa365 wrote:
Ps love the idea that Armagh won't be as fit as us. With McGeeney as manager I don't think that will be their downfall particularly with a qualifier run of regular games behind them (compared to our one game in a month). If we win it will be because we've better players. Even tactically I'm not convinced we'll be better as I wasn't blown away by any tactical innovations from us on Sunday. If anything the management team and players looked tactically naive. We've an awful habit of bigging ourselves up and diminishing the opposition on here. See league final v Galway for instance.

Fone obviously didn't see the Tipp game when they were dominant in the second half and Sheridan was galloping up the field away from a couple of Tipp guys in dying moments. As you say, Kildare should be better but the defensive weaknesses that persist are a big worry against athletic, speedy players and some skilful, good finishers. But again, win enough ball and Kildare should have the ability to do more of that and win what could be a high-scoring affair.

You're spot on in the last line, post-Meath was the same, I don't refer to it anymore because apparently as an 'outsider' I'm patronising Kildare when I do that and also the forum bosses don't like when people give out about lunatics on social media - they take it very personally, like this is the only form of social media in the world.

Bottom line, Kildare deserve to be favourites but against a team with the pressure off now and moving in the right direction, will pay the price if their levels drop and they take their eye off the ball. I'm hoping that won't happen - and I'm not worried about a Croke Park hex at all. To me, that has had more to do with where Kildare have been in the last five years and the opposition, than the pitch or stadium. Kildare to win in an entertaining game.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:59 pm

Ogie wrote:
kildaregaa365 wrote:
Ps love the idea that Armagh won't be as fit as us. With McGeeney as manager I don't think that will be their downfall particularly with a qualifier run of regular games behind them (compared to our one game in a month). If we win it will be because we've better players. Even tactically I'm not convinced we'll be better as I wasn't blown away by any tactical innovations from us on Sunday. If anything the management team and players looked tactically naive. We've an awful habit of bigging ourselves up and diminishing the opposition on here. See league final v Galway for instance.

Fone obviously didn't see the Tipp game when they were dominant in the second half and Sheridan was galloping up the field away from a couple of Tipp guys in dying moments. As you say, Kildare should be better but the defensive weaknesses that persist are a big worry against athletic, speedy players and some skilful, good finishers. But again, win enough ball and Kildare should have the ability to do more of that and win what could be a high-scoring affair.

You're spot on in the last line, post-Meath was the same, I don't refer to it anymore because apparently as an 'outsider' I'm patronising Kildare when I do that and also the forum bosses don't like when people give out about lunatics on social media - they take it very personally, like this is the only form of social media in the world.

Bottom line, Kildare deserve to be favourites but against a team with the pressure off now and moving in the right direction, will pay the price if their levels drop and they take their eye off the ball. I'm hoping that won't happen - and I'm not worried about a Croke Park hex at all. To me, that has had more to do with where Kildare have been in the last five years and the opposition, than the pitch or stadium. Kildare to win in an entertaining game.
Tipperary at not good as last year .
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:13 am

Spot on Ogie - both posts very insightful. Liking your optimism about Croke Park. I do think we're a more comfortable team playing in provincial venues. However Armagh don't exactly have a huge amount of HQ experience so they may be similarly impacted there, who knows?
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:41 am

Tipp are good when they have everyone fit, that was not the case against Armagh. Quinlivan was a passenger for 90% of that game and they still fell over the line. Bottom line is if both teams play to their potential Kildare win at this moment in time and that's not because it's a Kildare forum but it's reality.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:45 am

It´s so hard to actually compare the form lines all season. Like in fairness Meath were very unlucky not to draw at least with Donegal but now we think the Royals. Plenty of teams wouldn´t fancy playing Donegal who were meant to put it up to Tyrone at the start of Ulster.
Armagh got past Westmeath who are also now deemed utter shite, but didn´t blow them away.
They also beat Tipp who seemed to have Quinlivan unable to move and are without last year´s captain, plus Evan Comerford with his kickouts.
The only real yardstick so far is the Dubs who are a constant and we were well beaten by them. BUT in saying all that we did trouble them and we kept going at the pace they set, which you would imagine is one Armagh are not at.
All in all when you take the Dubs, Kerry and perhaps Tyrone and Mayo out of the equation it is a free for all at this stage. I would say they will fancy it, but I think we should have too much for them.

We need to sit on Jamie Clarke and one player needs to fully sacrifice their game to stop him. Frees inside the 45 need to be kept to a minimum too with Grimley about.
Feely back is massive and it also means if we need to be ruthless with Tommy Moo Paul or Fionn could go in at MF and wing forward in whatever order.
Like I said outside four teams at best it is up for grabs and we need to build again. By all accounts the lads are raging over last Sunday and want to get things going again.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:46 am

Kildare by five. That's that then!
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:14 am

I would not take any team in the qualifiers for granted Kildare against Limerick Kildare against Antrim etc We all taught that we should be winning those pulling up but that is rarely the case. But i do think Kildare will win but there is always something telling me to wait on till the final whistle.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:36 am

Just did a quick calculation earlier and our record in Croke Park since the start of 2013 is absolutely shocking, diabolical - worse than you'd even imagine.

In that time, we've played there on 16 occasions, losing 12 times and winning just four. The only team of note we've beaten is Donegal - and even that was in a first round league game. Other than, we've beaten such heavyweights as Louth, Wexford and Offaly.

If you take the top two teams in the country, we've played Dublin five times and Kerry once - the cumulative losing margins in those games is a mind-bending 94 points (56 of them conceded on Jason Ryan's watch).

Other than that, we've been beaten by - deep breath - Tyrone, Meath, Monaghan, Clare, Wesmeath and Galway.

Jesus Christ!!
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kildaregaa365
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:41 am

We lost our last two games there in 2012 as well so that makes it 4 wins in 18.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:10 am



Calm down, fone. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:57 am

Armagh are having a typical Geezer campaign, unlucky to lose in 1st round of provincial championship and then build up a head of steam in the qualifiers. Their fitness looks pretty good, they blew Tipperary away in the last 15 mins, a Tipp team (albeit carrying injuries) who were in last 4 last year, and beat a Div 1 team away (cavan) in previous round. We will need to be at 100% to win. re: Niall Kelly i think he did ok against Dublin (he is being an marked these days) but with brophy, flynn, and now slattery giving teams a lot to think about there may not be enough man markers to go around, I would definitely stick with Kelly, he is a class act.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:51 am

That is the key in that teams have a nice few to worry about with us. Inside Flynn and Brophy would need watching but now Slattery, K Cribbin and the likes of Ollie also show what can be done running from deep. That is very hard to stop barring a foul.
I think we all know what Kelly can do and we expect so much more from him, but only because we know what he can do.
Feely pulling the strings from deeper also is another man they need to shut down.
NB I am not saying they are a one-man team but so much of their good stuff comes through Clarke. We are less reliant on any one man.

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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:34 pm

Highball wrote:
True Caprea - The rule is a joke to start with...

However, im surprised that the wording said the card was "unproven" - Surely the referees report and decision is the proof and the appellant would have to come up with evidence to show not guilty as opposed to the other way around which appears to be the case above..

Wouldn't necessarily agree that the rule is a joke (but i know what you mean) as it comes from the right place, a punishment for persistent cynical play.

You are absolutely right in the 2nd thing you say. I'm not sure how a case has to be proven beyond the ref's say so. I'm not sure what it means for club discipline where almost no games are going to be covered by tv cameras so does that mean all discipline cases at club level are "unproven"

A dangerous precedent and only a matter of time before these types of rulings will come around to bite us on the arse.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:01 pm

Should we lose to Armagh I think most Kildare supporters will be left wondering as to how much we have actually progressed this year. It would be a pretty disappointing end make no mistake.
For what it's worth I think we'll have 5 or 6 to spare . Think we'll see Conway dropping straight back into the 6 position and Cribbin in from the start in half forwards
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:34 pm

jj wrote:
Should we lose to Armagh I think most Kildare supporters will be left wondering as to how much we have actually progressed this year. It would be a pretty disappointing end make no mistake.
For what it's worth I think we'll have 5 or 6 to spare . Think we'll see Conway dropping straight back into the 6 position and Cribbin in from the start in half forwards

Agree - losing to Armagh would be an anti-climactic end alright. But it's still been a really positive year. It would be great to beat Armagh and get the chance to go up against another top team in Tyrone. We did relatively well against Dublin but playing Tyrone would allow us to gauge better as to where we are in relation to the teams immediately behind them.

But first things first - we need to beat Armagh and consolidate the progress this year. With Feely now back, moving Conway back and bringing in Cribben seems sensible but O'Neill may prefer to leave Conway where he has been so effective the last 18 months. He's not going to be facing the pace of Dublin next week.

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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:41 pm

In regard to Conway last week I think it was his speed of thought more so than his physical speed that caught him out. He seemed to be caught standing with the ball wondering what to do quite a few times. Has been brilliant for us in last couple of years though so I'd be confident it was a one off
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:09 am

Match week and in my eyes a bigger game than Dublin. We had such a small chance of beating them that it was never really a possibility. This game however will define our season for good or bad. Yes those of us who have endured over the years will say it's been a decent year with promotion and a Leinster final but let's be honest if we fail to beat Armagh the perception of us as a County across the Country will be harmed badly. Beat Armagh and suddenly we are in a quarter final and it's a very good year due to where we came from and we get a free swing at Tyrone.

Good interview by O'Neill on KFM yesterday. Lads went out for a night but players insisted they get back to recovery in the Monday post Leinster final. Everyone fit bar Doyle and Flynn. He didn't put to much stake in the fact that McGeeney will know the Kildare players. Says it's a new team and they are not the same players they were when he was here.

I genuinely believe if we play at a similar tempo to the Dublin game we will win. What I'm worried about is there is no Dublin fear factor to drive them on and they could have another off day like Galway.

Team wise Conway to 6 and Cribbin to 10. Rest as is.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:03 am

I know I am getting ahead of myself here but if as we all believe that staying in division one is vital to our development the its good to see Donegal's decline and we have nothing to fear from both Monaghan and Galway
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:12 am

After Rex, it's a must win game for us. We need to establish ourselves as a top 8 team who are capable of moving up to a top 4 in the near future.
Any chance we had of beating Dublin evaporated once the goals went in and any chance of getting close once Flynn missed.
I worry about our reliance on Feely for the kickouts, we really need more lads making runs like Dublin do so easily.
Brophy will get better and Kelly will return to form. We have enough up front to run up a decent score.
My worry is have we man markers? Two Dublin players scored 11 points against us without much pressure . Clarke is capable of inflicting damage if allowed time.
Expecting a big performance from us to set us up for a right cut at Tyrone.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:18 am

We should be measuring ourselves in games versus the best in the country not division three opposition. Of course Kildare losing to Armagh would define the season but in all truth it simply shouldn't happen. The games that define where we are are versus dublin and the Tyrone one providing we avoid disaster on Saturday. We should go and play our game versus Armagh, deliver a performance and on all known form we will win with comfort. Not need to get angsty about it or get carried away if we do win well. Jamie Clarke is their main threat and he has never really delivered against the best teams or when tightly marked by a specialist marker .
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:52 am

Agree on Clarke, very over rated player. Wouldn't be losing sleep over him at all. Grimley in midfield is their main man - was outstanding in their win over Tipperary - he'll need watching.

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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:27 pm

fone wrote:
Ogie wrote:
kildaregaa365 wrote:
Ps love the idea that Armagh won't be as fit as us. With McGeeney as manager I don't think that will be their downfall particularly with a qualifier run of regular games behind them (compared to our one game in a month). If we win it will be because we've better players. Even tactically I'm not convinced we'll be better as I wasn't blown away by any tactical innovations from us on Sunday. If anything the management team and players looked tactically naive. We've an awful habit of bigging ourselves up and diminishing the opposition on here. See league final v Galway for instance.

Fone obviously didn't see the Tipp game when they were dominant in the second half and Sheridan was galloping up the field away from a couple of Tipp guys in dying moments. As you say, Kildare should be better but the defensive weaknesses that persist are a big worry against athletic, speedy players and some skilful, good finishers. But again, win enough ball and Kildare should have the ability to do more of that and win what could be a high-scoring affair.

You're spot on in the last line, post-Meath was the same, I don't refer to it anymore because apparently as an 'outsider' I'm patronising Kildare when I do that and also the forum bosses don't like when people give out about lunatics on social media - they take it very personally, like this is the only form of social media in the world.

Bottom line, Kildare deserve to be favourites but against a team with the pressure off now and moving in the right direction, will pay the price if their levels drop and they take their eye off the ball. I'm hoping that won't happen - and I'm not worried about a Croke Park hex at all. To me, that has had more to do with where Kildare have been in the last five years and the opposition, than the pitch or stadium. Kildare to win in an entertaining game.
Tipperary at not good as last year .

I would agree completely with that Fone. Tipp were All-Ireland semi-finalists last year and far superior to Kildare. Down players this year and Quinlivan unfit. But that not really relevant to the point - we were talking the fitness of Armagh. They were flying at the end. It's nothing to do with who I think will win, I just thought it was an odd statement. Not a huge big deal.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:30 pm

Rex wrote:
Tipp are good when they have everyone fit, that was not the case against Armagh. Quinlivan was a passenger for 90% of that game and they still fell over the line. Bottom line is if both teams play to their potential Kildare win at this moment in time and that's not because it's a Kildare forum but it's reality.

Absolutely.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Armagh    Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:20 am

Yeah IF we get back going again we should have too much for them. The lads all seem keen to get back out there again and set the record straight so I would think this should happen.

I for one think more about Clarke than others it seems, as I reckon he is class when he gets going and their really good play will almost certainly come off him.
I would imagine he will be let wander same as last day so I want someone sitting on him and as I said he is not super physical so someone like Keith (who is an underrated tackler in terms of getting the hands in) would be a good option.

Conway at 6 has plenty of weight to throw around and doesn't mind taking hits, so I would be very keen to see him get that position. Plus if there are any other injuries at the back he will have more defensive game time going ahead...
As an aside in their cameos both P Kelly and Bolton are looking very fit so there are other options.

PS Isn't it nice to be talking about football all the time on this forum now?! Christ for too long we ended up in bickering over a manager or some other shite.
I think O'Neill deserves huge credit from learning from his own mistakes last year. It was his first job as manager and he has come on so much with the team. Roly is a massive bonus too.
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