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Botch
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PostSubject: Championship re-structure   Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:24 pm

I see the county board has asked the clubs about the football and hurling championship structure.
Want ideas and thoughts for the voting in for the next 3 years.

I feel its fine as it is on the football front as all games are very competitive bar there being low numbers in the junior championship

Maybe the numbers should be evened up??
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lomond
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:18 pm

Currently there is 41 clubs taking part in the Senior, Inter and Junior championships.

If we are to leave it at 3 grades and not create a Junior B comp for some of the weaker junior clubs plus, Ardclough, Kildangan and Athgarvan then my view would be 14 senior, 14 Inter and 13 Junior clubs

Then structure would be either stick as is or maybe go with a group structure of 5, 5 and 4.
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bigball
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:16 am

Go back to the group format. Its not right that some clubs only play 3 championship games in a year. More games the better
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Fear An Geata
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:14 am

I like the current structure of Senior & Intermediate. Every game is important. If you revert to a group structure there will inevitably be dead rubbers. Also if you reduce the number of teams to less than 16 it becomes a nightmare to structure (without groups).

I accept the Junior is a difficult competition to get right with a variation in standard between some of the clubs. However, adding four more current Intermediate teams to that competition is unlikely to do much for the weaker Junior clubs. All it might accomplish is to drive more clubs the way of Athgarvan, Ardclough and Kildangan. It would be better in my opinion to be trying to work with those 3 clubs to try and get them back into the Junior Championship, increasing the numbers from the bottom up.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:48 am

Think Senior and Intermediate is ok, personally 3 championship games is plenty the problem with the group format is that teams can go out on score difference etc. and championship in its simplest format needs to be win/lose and I think this is the advise from high when structuring championship formats along with avoiding disputes!
Think the league and championship format is ok apart from the fixtures disaster we have at stages every year, playing games on Bank Holidays / Sunday nights etc. this is what clubs should be returning with.
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lillyboy
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:45 am

I like the current format as every game has something at stake. I'd also like the grading of players to be reviewed, with up to 6 subs used and u17s not allowed play it's leaving smaller clubs under pressure fielding second teams
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Cilldara_2000
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:45 am

I'd prefer if we went back to straight knockout at all levels.
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:55 pm

Cilldara_2000 wrote:
I'd prefer if we went back to straight knockout at all levels.

Do that and the GAA will become like curling, a curiosity that a few participate in, more of social entity for middle-aged and older people, the young people all going off to play soccer and rugby every weekend.
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topcat
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:01 am

Cilldara_2000 wrote:
I'd prefer if we went back to straight knockout at all levels.
Dubs went to that for a couple of years but are now reverting back to a group format having teams championship seasons over in April/May would be a disaster in my opinion.
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:22 am

Cilldara_2000 wrote:
I'd prefer if we went back to straight knockout at all levels.

Ah no.. lose in April and that's it.
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Highball
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:03 pm

Don't see much wrong with the current format at senior level - Think it works well and is exciting
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:22 pm

I liked the Group format with all teams getting plenty of Games... although the current format is fine especially with the anticipation of the draws in each round.
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bigball
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:06 am

Current format suits Co Board as it means very few games in total if you compare to championships in other counties.
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:59 am

Waterford changed their football structure to have less games and they're playing semi-finals this weekend! An Rinn qualified for the semi-final five months ago and up to a few weeks ago, only one club was actually out of contention!

Ye don't know how good ye have it!!
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bigball
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:37 am

Ok might be alot to take in here and Im sure some of you will rubbish my proposal but I have put a good bit of thought into this and I beleive it would improve the standard of football in the county.

For me there are two big issues within our club structures which need to be addressed.

Firstly and its a simple one, players are not getting enough games. If we want to develop top level footballers then we need to create structures which give them the oppportuntiy to play more games. For some teams to be only getting 3 championship games a year is not good enough.

Secondly: The Kildare JFC is in a sorry state. Only 9 teams in it this year and even at that there were a number of walkovers given.It is totally unfair of players from smaller clubs to be forced to put up with such a sad state of affairs. We need to give young lads from Grange, Athgarvan etc the opportunity to reach their full potential just like another young lad from a bigger town club is.

I am proposing the creation of three divisional teams composing of players from Junior clubs  who will compete in the senior ranks. I believe there to be many beenfits to such a restructure and I will outline two of them.
1: Currently a young talented footballer from Kildangan does not the chance to play championship football as his club do not field in the JFC. For this young lad ,his chances to develop as a footballers are being unfairly curtailed and it is not difficult to envisage this young man focusing on rugby or soccer. My proposal would give this man a path to continue to develop as it would to many others like him. The development of players like him would ultimately lead to a stronger Kildangan team overall.
2. My proposal would see increase the likelihood of  Kildare clubs winning Leinster club and All Ireland club titles. My proposal would have 13 senior clubs excluding the divisonal sides. This would mean that the winners of the Kildare IFC would effectively be the 14th best club team in Kildare. Raheens this year were effectively the 17th best club team. It would be the same for the JFC.

Below is an illustration of how it could work. Before people ask I how I have one team in Inter ahead of another in Junior, this is solely for illustrative purposes.


Senior: 16 teams 4 groups of 4. Top 2 teams through to a Quarter Final, bottom 2 go to a Relegation Quarter final

Inter: 16 teams 4 groups of 4 Top 2 teams through to a Quarter Final, bottom 2 go to a Relegation Quarter final

Junior : 15 teams 3 groups: 3 groups of 5. Top 2 from each group go to a QF as well as two best placed 3rd teams. Remainder of teams ( 7 teams) playoff for a shield.

 

Reduction of the number of clubs playing senior football from 16 to 13 and the creation of 3 divisional teams made up from juinior clubs to replace them.

 

Divisonal teams to work as follows:

 

North Kildare: Ardclough, Rathcoffey, Cappagh, Caragh, Robertstown

Mid Kildare: Ellistown, Kill, Kilcullen, Athgarvan, Milltown

South Kildare: Rheban, Grange, Castlemitchell, KIldangan, Ballykelly

 

SFC: Moorefield, Sarsfields, Athy, JTB, Celbridge, Towers, Clane, Raheens, Carbury, Naas, Castledermot, Confey, St Laurences, North Kildare, Mid Kildare, South Kildare

 

IFC: Eadestown, Maynooth, Allenwood, Leixlip, Kilcock, Monasterevan, Rathangan, Ballymore, Clogherinkoe, Sallins, St Kevins, Nurney, Ballyteague, Suncroft, TMH, Straffan

 

JFC: Ardclough, Rathcoffey, Cappagh, Caragh, Robertstown, Ellistown, Kill, Kilcullen, Athgarvan, : Rheban, Grange, Castlemitchell, KIldangan, Ballykelly, Milltown


Would love to hear peoples thoughts on this.


Last edited by bigball on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Highball
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:07 am

Don't think divisional teams would work in Kildare - Why would the likes of an Ellistown player want to team up with a Kill or Kilcullen player. I just don't think there would be the interest. Its not as if there are geographical constraints within Kildare really.

Not meaning to knock you proposal and while I agree the junior championship is definitely worth looking at, I really don't think there is a huge amount wrong with the senior structure.

3 championship games is ok with me and the draw structure means that It does maintain a level of excitement.
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steviegenius
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:51 am

Your asking for starters 3 senior teams to drop to intermediate wont happen. Teams fight tooth and nail to stay senior.
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smokey
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:13 am

Bigball various proposals of similar ilk have been put forward before. I tend to agree with u on divisional teams in the senior championship but these teams would play in their relevant championship also. Kilcullen were in the u16 final this year so I'd imagine they are hoping these players will come through and push on in intermediate over the next few years.
Ellis town had a decent u21 team so I doubt they are looking to amalgamate.
How many players from these clubs would you lose so the better ones get to play senior?
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bigball
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:25 am

Highball: If neighbouring clubs can come together in Cork and Kerry then theres no reason why a club in Kildare cant do likewise. Being from a junior club myself I can tell you our top players would love the chance to take on a neighbouring senior club.

Smokey: Junior clubs will stay play in the JFC. Their best players would then play with their divisional team. If for example Ellistown won the JFC they would no longer contribute players to the divisional side. The team who gets relegated from intermediate would see its players play with the divisional side the folllowing year as well as playing with their club in the JFC.
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lomond
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:52 am

I hope lads get mileage a bit of trek to train down in Ellistown for the Kill la:D Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy ds
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lomond
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:53 am

Clubs would never agree to be moved down a grade without them having to play matches to retain there status
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bigball
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:57 am

Obviously theyd have to play matches before theyd be relegated. The structure would not be introduced overnight.

Anyone got anything positive to say lol
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lomond
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:04 am

Would a divisional side of junior players be able to mix it at senior level?? I have my doubts, there will be some players up to the standard but not 20 lads
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bigball
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:07 am

Absolutey. Kilcullen would fancy their chances v Eadestown on their own never mind if they were combined with other clubs from mid Kildare.
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Fear An Geata
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PostSubject: Re: Championship re-structure   Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:12 am

Interesting suggestion bigball. However, you are working off the premise that Athgarvan, Kildangan & Ardclough will participate in your 15 team JFC. If they cannot be enticed back into the JFC would your plan be then to proceed with a 12 team JFC and would players from each of those 3 clubs still be eligible for the Divisional teams ?

Personally, I don't think dropping 3 Intermediate clubs back down to Junior will do anything for the JFC as there is a big gulf in standard between both Championships at present and it would lead to a number of hidings, which in turn might lead to players from the weaker Junior clubs packing it in. I'd prefer to see a 12 team JFC with the 3 afore mentioned Clubs being enticed back in (build from the bottom up as it were / as opposed to dumbing down). Easier said than done I know but every effort should be made to help those Clubs and enable them to field teams in the JFC.

While it's a nice idea to give players from the weaker clubs a chance to play in the SFC I'm not sure whether it's feasible or not. It could be tried out in the Aldridge Cup initially I suppose to see whether there's an appetite for it or not.
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