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 Kildare v Tyrone

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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:36 am

Lads 0-18 is a super return against Tyrone's blanket in those conditions. And with even an average free-taker, it would have been 0-21 or 0-22. And we managed that even though Paddy Brophy and Dan Flynn struggled to make an impact.
The problem is at the other end. Like others I think our backs are performing well individually but there might be a structural problem because Tyrone scored as much in one game against us as they did against Dublin and Galway combined.
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:45 pm

From memory (and I could be wrong) I thought we missed 3 frees yesterday. Feely missed a difficult one from the 45 in the 1st half, then Feely missed one from around 30m and Donnellan missed one from 45m when the game was very close in the 2nd half. Obviously you'd like to be getting them all but there was a strong enough wind yesterday so none of them were easy and Tyrone missed a few as well so I'm not sure it was the free-taking that lost us the match as it was against Monaghan.
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lilysavage
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:43 pm

Certainly wasn't the frees Think we had better conversion rate than Tyrone.. Taking the ball into the tackle is something you get away in Div 2 as you only meet one man. Tyrone swallow you up and as soon as you lose momentum it's invariably a turnover. Dan Flynn and Paul Cribbin got caught a couple of times each. At our end, this is something we need to bring to our defence. First man stops the run, then another in straight away , disciplined tackling.
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Onechance
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:54 pm

Watching the game back last night i thought to myself what would the top teams do, and Tyrone included, when they had Mattie Donnelly running at them 5 minutes into injury time and a draw game.
We are too naive at the back sometimes and leave ourselves widely exposed, once he got by feely he had ample room to run into. The Dubs or the Kerry's of this world would have dragged him down and being a bit more cynical, or at least had the numbers back up his run. At the present time teams are just that bit cuter than us.
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:02 pm

The reason why we lose the ball in contact so often is that there are no support runners to receive a quick pass before the player is surrounded. Tyrone have perfected this technique for years.
It's an essential skill in sports from basketball to rugby. Support the player in possession, retain the ball and score more. Watch Dublin in full flight and there is always an easy offload before the tackle.
It means working harder both indivually and as a team.
We have 4 games to improve that but maybe div 2 is a better place to practice it.
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Rex
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:32 pm

Very disappointing to say the least. Another close game we lose another 2 points dropped. That's not to say it wasn't an improvement on last week, but that would not have been hard. Tyrone are back to back Ulster champions and I thought we matched them well. The one areas they are better than us is the way they move the ball up field. It's quick and it is with purpose. There is always a man available and when they did it right yesterday we could not lay a hand on them. It's something I hope we can learn from (another learning exercise, that list is long now)

Anyway, a few of the same problems still persist. Bringing the ball into contact is a blight on our game. We continually get turned over in the forward area. A couple of players are desperate for it. It's not Div 2 or 3 where you can burst pass a lad into space. You will get hit as hard back and then be swarmed. The lesson of keeping the ball moving has not been heeded yet. Although the lack of forward movement can lead to these situations. Missed frees and the worst time and as usual the inability to realise the situation as regards the overall game and stop that final Tyrone attack on the half way line is poor reflection on the group. A point would have been ok in the circumstances.

For me it's about the performances from now on. If we go to Donegal and put in a good shift, then we might be on an upward trend, but my fears is we will revert back to the insipid Kildare we have seen all to often.

If Cian wants to get a bit of fire in them, play OSe's comments on loop the entire journey up.

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Great white hope
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:33 pm

Funny you said that murof I had heard last year that Dublin use a basketball coach and tactics as part of their training
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:20 pm

Watching again, I'd say our hand pass count is huge, especially laterally and backwards.
Donegal away will be a tough assignment indeed and hard to see us getting anything there.
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:35 pm

We played well yesterday overall but still lost, end of story, are we learning from our mistakes? not sure.
Think we are asking too much of Feely at the moment and he is suffering for it? why did we not try and use jimmy hyland more in 2nd half when he was out in front of his marker possible few more scores or frees? not sure what to do you can't really fault mark donellan but we cant get a quick kick out at all? why does paul cribben put the ball out in front of himself when he carrying it leaves himself very open all the time and don't think he contributing as much as I expect?
also why are we shadowing so much and not putting in meaningful tackles, running beside opposition man that has the ball is not tackling which begs the question when you hear of great teams the training matches are cut throat doubt if that happening in Hawkfield? too nice.
Also have to say and am not one to complain about referees but I taught a few critical decisions went against us or were not awarded which led to lost chances for us or scores for tyrone who admittedly didn't have the scoring boots on yesterday. this is not fair on players who put in so much effort and ultimately could cost us our div 1 status.

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Seanymac
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:48 pm

Have to say really enjoyed the game yesterday for this time of year. Kildare should not be to hard on themselves as they where right there to the death. I thought Tyrone made hard work of it and could of won by 3 or 4 but full credit to Kildare. They have some tasty footballers. mccarron will be a great signing for Athy
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SeamusMurphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:56 pm

Fair point micky.. Feely is being asked a lot of, surely he shouldn't be having to make his way from midfield to take a routine 14 yard free in front of the posts.
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Fear An Geata
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:02 pm

A lot of positives from yesterday but the main reason we lost was the amount of times they got space 35-40 metres from goal in the middle and were able to shoot unchallenged. Eoin Doyle is too close to the full back line in my opinion and needs to be about 10 yards further up the field which would allow us to cut out some of this problem and get some pressure on the shooter.
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parcel
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:20 pm

Teams are getting space in that area in front of goal because Byrne Cribben Conway Donahoe are constantly man marking/tagging their direct opponent..completely ignoring play going on around them..rather than going zonal and clogging up the centre..byrne and cribben especially.. you can see it happening with Cribben for the winning score.. it's selfish,individual defending..
It's a shame eoin o flaherty isnt involved anymore..its crying out for a player like him in the last 20 minutes to run an attack..
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kildareking
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:09 am

simple as, kildare brought the ball into the tackle against an ulster team..to many turnovers, the problems with kildare are actually quite simple, less turnovers, kick frees, dont give away silly posession. Tyrone were far more methodical, patient and worked far more efficiently at the back. Eoin Doyle doesnt mark his man simple as, class player and we all know it but we are left open , all he does is sit and 'protect' ..niall sludden ripped the arse out of him, and im not being harsh but he did and eoin doyle if he was touch tight (within our own half) sludden wouldnt of got as much of a licence. we have quality players but its just not happening under this management, we are improving granted but still saying that we havent won in 200 odd days. We rely far to much on dan flynn to spur something, and it normally ends up with a run into a poor shooting position and the quality of division one defenders will love that. Our attacks should have a natural progression and balance to them, similar to dublin, kerry ect cause we have quality footballers,
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Shergar
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:29 am

When Jack O'Connor was managing the Kerry minors and 21s he got one of the midfielders to drop back in front of the full-back line when the opposition have the ball. Is it worth putting Feely at centre-forward to allow Luke Flynn in midfield so he can drop back but still have Moolick and Feely available on our kick-outs? It would ask the opposition the same question they are asking us, does the centre-back track his man or stay put? Don't blame Eoin Doyle for following instructions.

Our tackling technique is poor and we badly need someone similar to Paul Grimley or Aidan O'Rourke in the set-up to coach this. Think of the end of the drawn qualifier in Newbridge v Antrim in 2010 when CJ McGourty was through for an easy point to win the game. Daryl Flynn dispossessed him with a perfectly times tackle. Why, because that's what he had been drilled to do in training. Kevin Feely on the other hand can hardly tackle.

Just because Daniel Flynn can play full-forward doesn't necessarily mean he should be there every game. There's days where we can get more out of him out the field.

And all these things are frustrating because we have the potential to win these games. We're not getting blown out of the water. Since Cian took over we have been in 12 league or championship games decided by 3 points or less and only won 3 of them. Winning a tight game with either Donegal or Mayo would do wonders for them. And as disappointing as it it is to lose, its far more beneficial to have these games rather than sleep-walking through a league match for 20 minutes and still winning comfortable like we did the last 2 years.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:26 am

With keith cribbin fully fit is Johnny Bryne under pressure now keep his place on team . Cian o Donoghue has settled in well into team
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KILL BILL
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:14 am

Johnny Byrne struggled for pace a couple of times yesterday, left for dead twice, more comfortable receiving the ball
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murof
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:27 am

Definitely bring Cribben in, Byrne just not doing enough. Hyland should be ahead of Healy now based on what he showed yesterday.
Doyle moving back when we defend is just lessening his influence on the game. He needs to get more involved as he is too good a defender to be so peripheral.
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JohnnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:46 am

Having Doyle sweep in front of the full back line is primarily to help stop us conceding goals and it has worked for the most part. A couple of years ago we were conceding goals for fun and now we are a lot better. The tactic doesn't work as well against Dublin who always seem to be able to bypass him. An obvious solution would be to drop one of the midfielders back to mark their centre forward.

I agree with Shergar's comment about getting in an outside coach to coach our tackling. For me that's the single biggest thing holding us back and it should be relatively easy to coach. I wince when I see players like Feely try to tackle, either it's a foul or he lets the man through. Look at Galway who we were on a par with at the start of the season. They brought in Paddy Tally as a coach and have improved a lot while we are making the same old mistakes...
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:38 am

Unless we get a better full back we'll always be trying to over-compensate somewhere, be it Doyle covering back or whatever. Hylo is a wing back in my eyes and does his best work when he comes forward. Luke Flynn or Johnny Byrne for full back? Personally would have liked to see Flynn tried by now.
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kildareking
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:15 pm

We shouldn’t have to bring in more coaches ...I don’t want to target Eoin Doyle personally as he is following orders , but how many more center forwards will make mince meat of us.......
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micky murphy
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:34 pm

Our tackling or lack of tackling is brutal and is holding us back, I would describe it as shadowing rather than tackling, it would be interesting to see the stats on tackling and turnover and measure it against something meaningful there was a few times on sunday when we did win 'spilled' ball but not through good tackling.........
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:12 am

Don't know how to start a topic. How many moores should be drafted in.
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Ohtoohtobe
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:09 am

I'd bring in Dempsey and Murray for definite. Maybe Liam Healy depending on how the back-up corner backs we have are going in training. Masterson has potential but I'd leave it until next year.
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PostSubject: Re: Kildare v Tyrone   Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:11 pm

Dempsey Murray and O'Connor (given our shortage of free-takers particularly).
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