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 New Senior Setup

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Breakingball
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PostSubject: New Senior Setup   Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:54 am

Just wondering what the feelings would be on this new Kildare setup starting from scratch and dropping down a level or two to try and build a proper panel?
Theres a lot of players who have been involved with the setup for a long number of years now and may be past their best.
From what Ive heard, the weekends trials saw a lot of the established players missing for one reason or another. Would it be worth dismantling the panel completely and picking a brand new one, regrade the team to intermediate or junior and allow a new panel cut their teeth down there?

The standard of senior football is quite high in the country and it wouldnt lend itself to a young team trying to learn the ropes.
Or is there genuinely some silverware in the panel of recent years? What would people think??
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SeeTheStars
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:15 am

Dropping down a level or two may not be an option, I do feel that Kildare Ladies Team has not been where it should for various reasons. Given the number of clubs in the county and the number of players, Kildare should be up there with the best.
Joe O'Donoghue has been given a two year term, he has started with a clean sheet, holding trials over the next few weeks, so hopefully he can unearth some hidden talent..
I agree we should start with a young team and take it from there. Whether there are enough girls interested in giving a commitment is the question.
One thing that I feel lets the ladies game down is the standard of refereeing, too many teams play the game at too physical a level as that is how they have been coached, then when they meet a smaller, less physical team with higher skill and fitness they can't cope with the movement and speed.
There needs to be more emphasis on playing the game as it should be played, not as a less physical version of mens football, but as a faster, more skilful and more intense game.
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Breakingball
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:06 am

You say dropping down a level or two is not an option. I ask why?
The countyboard have dropped down levels at all age groups in recent years in an attempt to win some silverware. Last years U/16's being a prime example. Why can't the same be done for the seniors?
I understand Joe is starting a clean slate. But Paul Kelly, Pat Ryan and John Courtney all started clean slates aswell and the same bunch or players attended and dropped out as they saw fit.
I dont agree that Kildare have the players to be 'up with the best of them'. We dont have players of the calibre of Dublin, Laois, Cork, Monaghan, Donegal, Galway, Mayo etc. In recent years we have seen teams like Tyrone, Kerry, Waterford, Sligo and Meath go through transitions and are starting to emerge as stronger outfits - far stronger than Kildare who are still relying on a few big names.
These transitions have seen the counties bring young, talented and most importantly hungry players into the fray and allow the older ones to move on.

I thoroughly agree with you on the refereeing. The standard in this county is a disgrace and has been a disgrace for a long time now. Apart from the likes of Liam Herbert and one or two others, our game is ruined by GAA refs who quite simply do not know the rules. The countyboard have done nothing to address this. In many clubs there are guys who have been involved with GAA teams coaching ladies and giving them all sorts of rediculous instructions from the line. The net result being, a lot of girls in this county, playing ladies football, who do not know the rules.
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SeeTheStars
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:21 am

Breakingball I agree with most of what you say, however I thought that you would have to be regraded to play in a lower division. I don't agree that any of the counties mentioned have better players than Kildare, better teams maybe.
Wholeheartedly agree that the only choice Joe has is to bring Young, talented and hungry players onto the team.
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Breakingball
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:16 am

I dont recall the Kildare underage teams being regraded. Kildares underage teams have always competed in the A division of U/14 and U/16. Not this year!
I recent years Letrim refused to play at senior level - the year after winning Intermediate sighting an inability to field a team at that level. IM pretty sure if Kildare made the same application under grounds for improvement, they'd have a case.
Id also be very curious to hear why the Aisling McGinn team was disbanded? This team was giving quite a lot of young girls a taste for underage football. Anybody know why it was discontinued?

As for having better players? We dont have players of the calibre of Sinead Ahearne, Clionadh O'Connor, Gemma Fay or Denise Masterson of Dublin. We dont have a match of Cora Staunton, Claire Egan or Fiona McHale of Mayo. Laois have Mary, Noreen and Marth Kirwin and Tracy Lawloe who we cannot match. Meaths Irene Munnelly, Jenny Rispin, Graine Nulty and Ger Doherty are all abocve our standard. I wont even start on Cork or Monaghan as the list is endless.
We have slipped badly behind most counties around the country and are neither feared or respected by too many if any.
Surely there could be a case for rebuilding?
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SeeTheStars
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:59 pm

I don't believe for one second that in a county the size of Kildare there are not 20 to 25 players with the drive, ability and hunger to be as good as, if not better than any of the players mentioned above.
It has to start at Under 12 or Under 14 level, where you try to identify the players and bring them on from year to year.
Kiernan McGeeney when he took over Kildare did not just look at the big name players, he also picked players from intermediate and junior clubs. The talent was there.

Damian Hendy made a very telling remark in the interview in the Nationalist this week-he said that even though he was not getting his place on the team he was pushing the guy that had his place that bit harder ie the lad the was keeping Hendy off knew that if he didn't perform there was someone who would.

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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:44 am

It's telling because that does not exist in ladies football. People are committed until they are dropped or their role changes in a way they don't like. Regardless of the management, until everyone is working their asses off, 25 players working their asses off, it won't happen. Best of luck to Joe but I for one think anyone without that prime requirement regardless of status or ability, should be cut adrift. And then the board needs to back that policy. Then see where you are in three years.

But that's only a plaster. It's the shocking state of Kildare's underage teams that really needs to be addressed. Solve that, and you solve the attitude at the ages of 17/18, and the standard of player willing and able to come through.
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kelf
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:38 am


I saw photos of a few Leinster Developement Blitzes, Under 15 & Under 17 but there were none of Kildare teams.
I have no clue why as I understood there was Dev Coaching for those age groups but why was attendance ?

Have to get in at that level.
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Breakingball
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:44 pm

Im afraid you'd want to believe it SeastheStars. We have a few players in this county who adore all the plaudits that go with being an intercounty player but who refuse to give the proper time, commitment and attitude that the task requires.
Take the lads for example. Any guy in college in Dublin or even further, will travel home for any training seission at anytime during the week. Whether he has to drive, catch a lift or get a train......he'll be there. IN fact I think I read somewhere last year that there was a guy travelling from Scotland?!

Ladies on the other hand, will train. But they wont give that same level of commitment. They wont travel from some parts of the county let a lone from Dublin or the likes.

I agree wholeheartedly with Ogie on this one. No matter who you are or more importantly - who you think you are - if you're not willing to work your hardest to be on the panel, then you should be cut.
The underage system in this county is a total shambles. The coaching structures etc need to be toran apart and modernised from top to bottom. Proper coaches must be put in place if the right attitude is to be instilled in future county players. As it stands we have girls at the age of 17, 18 and 19 who think they are above playing for Kildare.

Development squads are all well and good. But they can only be as good as the time, effort and proper coaching that is invested in them. Half arsed efforts in November and December are not worth a damn and would be better off not being run at all if not properly.
Whilst Damien Hendy's comments and ethos are admirable, unfortunately they are not mirrored by his female counterparts who - for the most part - are all about themselves at the moement....
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SeeTheStars
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:37 pm

BreakingBall, I would agree with some of what both yourself and Ogie says about commitment being a integral part of the make-up of someone wanting to play at the highest level in any sport, not just ladies football. However I don't see any evidence that coaching or under age structures are any better or worse in Kildare than in other counties.
I do agree that the development squads for the past few years were not giving value for money, a lot of girls got through that never should have been on them. This is the fault of the person in charge of the squad taking a short term view, that the squad is only there to win that years competition.
Last year (2010) the under 13s were brought together to do speed and agility training with a view to forming this years under 14 County team. There was a 13 week training regime carried out by two people who are in charge of one of the most successful underage girls team in the county. The aim of the program is to keep the squad together all the way up through the age groups, measuring progress against the better intercounty teams as they go. The squad was cut as the year went on due to girls not being able to commit etc.
The team had a reasonably successful summer season, however its not just about winning, the girls will realise as the progress whether that level of commitment is for them, some will drop off the panel, others will come on in their place and over the course of 3-4 years we should have a very competitive minor team, which should feed into the seniors.
Kildare are nowhere near the standard we should be, the reasons are well publicised elsewhere however we are not that far behind either, especially at underage level. My own club has played games at under 12/13/14 level against clubs from Dublin, Laoise and Offaly and there is no great difference in standard that I can see.
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gerry123
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:31 pm

The problem in Kildare is that there are too many small ladies clubs with one or two star players who carry the rest of the team. When the meet a strong club team from outside the county they can't compete. As I've said here before for ladies football in Kildare to develop there needs to be a rationalisation of clubs. Why do we need to have 5 or 6 clubs in Monasterevin or Athy or Carbury. It is unhealthy for ladies football.
In Monasterevin we have started a club for all the players of the parish, this is the only way forward for ladies football. This doesn't suit the County Board as they will be getting less affiliation fees, so they will suffer short term. Long term (5 or 6 years) they will see the benefit.
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Dual
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:31 am

gerry123 wrote:
The problem in Kildare is that there are too many small ladies clubs with one or two star players who carry the rest of the team. When the meet a strong club team from outside the county they can't compete. As I've said here before for ladies football in Kildare to develop there needs to be a rationalisation of clubs. Why do we need to have 5 or 6 clubs in Monasterevin or Athy or Carbury. It is unhealthy for ladies football.
In Monasterevin we have started a club for all the players of the parish, this is the only way forward for ladies football. This doesn't suit the County Board as they will be getting less affiliation fees, so they will suffer short term. Long term (5 or 6 years) they will see the benefit.


While I agree with you on the number of clubs, I think it is unrealistic to expect that every GFC club will have a ladies section until numbers increase, less clubs with greater numbers of members is the way to go - I'm lost though why you say you've started a club in Monastervin for all th players of the parish - why not put into practice your theory and let Monastervin ladies play for clubs that were already established rather than fragmenting the pool of players more.
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Breakingball
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:35 am

If a club has enough interested people to setup and support a ladies section, then its none of the county boards business......or anybody elses for that matter.
Are you suggesting that clubs should come together and form parish teams and allow a number of what you call "star players" play on the same team? What sort of message is that sending out to young ladies who want to play and train for enjoyment?

And as for your comment about Monasterevan forming a club for "all the players of the parish". If you really are associated with Monasterevan ladies you wuld realise that the club is barely 2 years old. Why would players want to leave clubs that are in existence for far longer, better developed and far more successful? Why would they take a chance in leaving well established clubs to join one which may not be in existence in 12 months time?

Its very plain to see from this and your previous comments that you are here only to cause friction between the existing clubs in the parish. Its also very clear to see that your knowledge of ladies football is very poor. Perhaps you should go get involved in community games or basketball and try your luck there!
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ballyboy
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:02 am

Gerry123 did it every occur to you that players play for the clubs because they choose to do so, nobody forces them too, its a thing called club loyalty, its what the Gaa is built on. Monasterevin didn't form a team '' for the parish'' they formed it because members of Monasterevin wanted their daughters to play for their club and more luck to them. Your opinion sounds very similar to a one that was muted last year at a meeting in the town that ALL the parish ladies clubs attended. It was rejected by them ALL including Monasterevin. Your idea is not new, it has been tried at lads football several times and did not last because in Monasterevin you are either blue and white or maroon and white, its a basic as that and it all comes back to club loyalty, most people have it a small few don't

I'm off the opinion that you have a very different agenda here and Breakingball has probably hit the nail on the head, why else would you be championing Monasterevin, if you were really interested in a community team you would not be insulting the success of the other 2 clubs in the parish, and their successes are many

PS
All clubs male and female have players who stand out, YOU call them stars, its their willingness to work hard to inspire their team mates that defines them as great players, I'd rather have great players,
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nomorethefool
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:34 pm

GERRYMANDERING 123, or shud the 123 be SSC?? is this an agenda to destroy and conquer for DADDYS dream??? as an educated person surely u must no by now that this is not possible!! from wat i av herd over d yrs,everytin u touched in monasterevin and beyond,has ended in total disaster.
Wat u want u wer party to dismantling!!!!
Dual, ur spot on, from wat i believe, Ballykelly WER the only team in the town of monasterevin, and doin extremely wel at that, so Gerry123's wish was already in place.
Breakingball, i jus wonder is Gerry123 calling themselves "STAR PLAYERS"??
REALLY,wat a laugh, i wudnt want to play div 5 after doing a lot more wit a team that has being winning way above on behalf of the PARISH!!!
As u av said Breaking ball, the monasterevin club is only on the go 2 yrs and gud luk to them,rivallry is healthy, but remember, a gud number of ther present players have learned ther trade wit Ballykelly,i wonder if the success rating wud be the same without??
You ar 100% correst that 123 is only here to caus friction and try draw comment,but as i av said before the GERRYmandering doesnt work here,many av tried and failed,just like 123 in monasterevin.
The point ur really missing thou is, just as Ballykelly was bigger than u, Monasterevin is also bigger than u, but i guess u have already worked that 1 out considerin ur on here after only a few months wit them,advocating dismantling them also in favor of ur ideals, which wer already at ur disposal.
instead of using 123 shud u not be replacing them wit initials?? liks SSC, then if we withdraw the "C" we wil see the real u, hitler will never be dead while ur on the go,the "SS" is alive and wel!!!!!!!!!!


Last edited by nomorethefool on Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Breakingball
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:57 pm

I must correct you on something there Ballboy. Monasterevan ladies was not setup because parents wanted their daughters to play for the club. It was setup because girls wanted to represent THEIR OWN club and not some other one. For a long time there was only one club catering for ladies football in the parish and girls had no choice but to play for them. Thankfully, 2011 brings freedom of choice and the likes of county board officers (current and former) cannot do anything to prevent a girl transferring back to her home club.
DESPITE THE UNDERHANDED EFFORTS OF THE PREVIOUS CHAIRMAN AND HIS BEST BUDDY IN KILDANGAN!!!

I can't agree with any of your points on ladies football Gerry. IN fact Im wondering if theres any experience or knowledge behind what your trying to say. Or is it the waffling of a guy who wishes to take over anything he sees. I am also wary that it could be somebody assuming the persona of the local bad guy. Either way - ur talking rubbish.

The big problem with the club scene in this county is the massive imbalance in all divisions. Clubs are playing at levels that are WAY below where they should be and are far too strong for opposing teams.
Theres only 6 clubs at senior level - 1 of those chose not to field a team this year and will no doubt look to play Intermediate next year in an attempt to win more silverware.
If the county board and their big talking officers were genuinely interested in nurturing and developing football in Kildare they would bite this bullet and set about correcting the imbalance.
Then and only then can they start to correct the issues at county level.

But I dont see any of those officers worrying or even noticing these issues and therefore won't expect anything to change,
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gerry123
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:48 am

Ok I accept that some of my ideas may have been a bit radical, in addition some of my comments have been misinterpreted. However don't shoot the messenger. Everyone accepts that there is a problem with lack of progress in ladies football in Kildare.
I agree totally with what breaking ball has to say about only 5 teams being in the senior championship-how can this be good for football. Like breakingball says the county board are not interested in correcting the imbalance.
Here is an idea: forget about my original idea of one club per parish-its obiously too radical, let everyone stay with their clubs, but create a number of divisional teams to play in the championship and league. Say another 5-6 teams to make a proper championship, both senior and intermediate. So say in Monasterevin, you could have a divisional team made up from players from monasterevin, ballykelly, nurney and kildangan and ellistown. In athy you could have a divisional team made up from athy rheban grange and castlemitchell.
Dont tell me the idea won't work without even trying it for a year.
I must take issue with some of the people here questioning my experience of football, i have been involved in ladies football for very many years and know the club scene very well. I happen to believe that of all the clubs I have been involved with the present one has the best spirit, comaraderie and best bunch of players I have ever met. I make no apologies to anyone for saying this, there is a lot of begrudgerie without any reason. Anything I was ever involved with I gave 110%
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kelf
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:25 am


only 5 teams being in the senior championship-how can this be good for football.
Like breakingball says the county board are not interested in correcting the imbalance


Get a copy of the Developement plan that has been in operation for the past 2 or 3 years.

Objective: At least 8 teams at Senior, Inter & Junior A and when that is achieved (time frame is there) then the aim is for 12 in each grade. Thats why the policy of No Regrading and Both Finalists promoted from Junior D, C & B was therein 2010 (was is it still there in 2011 ).

There has always been provision for "Divisional" teams in Senior and County Exec was sick asking for clubs to enter them.

Grange wont be in a Divisional team in 2012 as they are Senior ( Won Inter).

County Board (meetings) not the Exec decide Championship format so if a Club has a proposal its best to put it in (type)writing and send it to County Sec and every other club well in advance. Gives time to soak in as last thing Delegates want is a surprise. They generally vote against them. If proposed new format is in opposition to what's in approved Dev Plan it may even need two thirds but why not try .
The other issue is timing as all Champs, from Senior to Junior D presently run on the same dates (some with more games go on longer than others). Again nothing to stop the proposal covering dates as well.

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ballyboy
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:41 am

Breakingball I stand half corrected, because I am well aware of some parents who would not let their daughters play, and that not to be taken as a criticism, every club has them including my own. As for freedom of choice, anyone who wanted to play football for Ballykelly choose to do so, you make it sound like they were forced.

Regarding transfers, to date there has been approx 10-12 from Ballkelly to Monasrerevin across all age groups, this was expected considering the families involved. the were signed by the club when presented, so I hope your not trying to create bad feeling, transfers between these clubs has always happened and always will, some years you get them and other years we will. Transfers from Kildangan are a different story, while the two town clubs have no defined boundary they do, to say that girls are returning to their home club is wrong, in ladies football your home club is defined as the first club you play for not where your parents are from. The reason the transfers cannot be stopped because the rules at present are do not govern transfer within a parish, no other reason

Kelf is correct the development plan allows for ALL your points, you should get it off your club secretary and read through it, a good document put together by good people all it needs is for clubs to follow it.

Gerry123 glad to see you are TRYING to tone down comments, unfortunately the last line of your post lets you down, you can't help getting in a dig and you have the gall to accuse others off ''begrudgerie'', I would say Breakingball is not too far of the mark with his comment '' is it the waffling of a guy who wishes to take over anything he sees'' ( I would have added the word successful to that ). You sound like someone who threw the doddie out of the pram a few times considering your comment '' all the clubs I have been involved with'', how many clubs were you actually involved with and why, medal chasing, takeover attempts or just no loyalty ??
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SeeTheStars
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:32 pm

Getting back to the senior set up, anyone hear how the trials went, any new faces likely to feature in 2012?
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Ogie
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:51 am

Hopefully there will be some fresh blood comes through. Were there teams picked for the trials? How many called up?

Gerry sounds like a bitter man and he just can't hold back, even when he's trying! Wouldn't be helping Monasterevin's cause at all I'd say. All that aside, there should be great rivalry between the teams in the future if Monasterevin can ever reach the levels Ballykelly have through the grades.

Before we know it, it'll be time to get back out on the pitch soon! Sure we'll have a few more mince pies first.

Happy Christmas!
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nomorethefool
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:56 am

GERRYmandering123
although some seem to think by your last post that you wer attempting to tone down ur ideas,i actually differ to them on the basis that after reading ur post in full, ur still chasing ur ideal scenario, which u have been harping on about for a long while now,"1 TEAM IN THE MONASTEREVIN PARISH".
Ultimately ur ideal was available to u for many a year in the form of "BALLYKELLY LADIES" WHOM U TURNED UR BACK ON,not only once but TWICE because u just cudnt become bigger than the club itself.
ur newfound friendship wit ur new club is held such high esteem (in ur opinion) that u also wish to smash that up after ur short time involved, to again promote ur ideal of,yes ur "1 CLUB PARISH",and for fear of repeating myself, U HAD IT AND CHUCKED IT "TWICE"
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kelf
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:56 am


Back to the Subject: Any word on when Seniors back training.

See the Fixtres for Round 1 of National League up on Ladies Website today.

Dublin will be a big ask for starters
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ballyboy
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:02 am

How has training being going Kelf ??
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kelf
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PostSubject: Re: New Senior Setup   Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:20 am


Ballyboy ------------- U didn't read my post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I asked

Any word on when Seniors back training.

I haven't heard if they are back yet or who are in or out for 2012

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